Warbird Information Exchange

Most everybody would like see Fifi fly. A B-29 is rare, historic and impressive looking. I was one of the support members when it came to Denver some years ago and people were coming out like cops at Dunkin Donuts.
But what if an accountant looked at it as an asset, an income/cost evaluation? How much is feasable to get it flying? If it was $1/2 mil, great; if it was $10mil that is probably not doable nor logical. The figure of $3 mil has been given. That seems pretty high, but in any event is a moot point if we don't have the money. With Gary and the other guys at least they probably have the expertise and man power.
If it was restored at $3m, then what? How reliable would it be and for how long? It seems Fifi's value is much higher as a flying item than just static in Midland. I wonder what the market value would be as is, likely not enough. If it became reliable flying plane, what can it earn, in appearance fees, rides, vs. what it will cost to operate?Insurance costs must be high! If that money was raised and she flew again, it only seems to make sense if it is a long term viable program. If a year later the $3mil is spent and we are back where we started with a non flying plane, that would be difficult. Thanks

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Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK

How reliable would it be and for how long?

Once the airframe problems are repaired it should be good for another 60 years. Fuel tanks, landing gear strut seals, tires, fuel pumps, landing gear/flap motors and systems like that are still questionable for how long. With the newer engines it should be good for another 20 years with normal overhaul as required. Fuel supplies ???????

Just my opinion.

the Air Force starts a Heritage Flight program and puts some of our tax dollars to GOOD use by flying a LOT of different AC types in Air Shows all around the country, leaving the CAF to spend more money and time keeping the smaller AC in airworthy condition instead of throwing cubic dollars at one plane?
The Brits do it with great success ....
just a thought

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EVERYTHING that CAN fly should be ALLOWED to FLY!
IWO JIMA'S best narative..."GOD ISN'T HERE"
http://www.amazon.com/God-Isnt-Here-Ame ... 0976154706


P: Noise coming from under instrument panel. Sounds like a midget pounding on something with a hammer.

S: Took hammer away from midget.

The NMUSAF are not going to fly any of their collection, and that is 100% understadable, but why not have the USAF donate money to the CAF and help them with funding some of that collection for Heritage flights? The US navy can do the same, and so on. So now you have the static ones preserved in museums, you have the branches helping keep some of the flying ones in the air, and we all win.

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Chris Henry
EAA Aviation Museum Director

Interesting question..I thought FI FI was essentially ready to fly except for engines. At least that was the discussion a year or so back. It's my undersatnding the model of 3350 engines required are very scarce.

As much as I argue how important static museums are, which is true, the flying aircraft are importatn as well. We need to keep Fifi in the air.

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Chris Henry
EAA Aviation Museum Director

A flyable in annual FIFI may be worth 2M dollars. Nobody has bought a B-29 in many years, and operating one is not for any group that can buy a B-29. Its a special aircraft requiring a lot of commitment and understanding. A mustang can be owned by a successful individual and dlown by him for a variety of reasons. A B-29 takes a group of people a long amount of time to prepare, preflight, fly and postflight. You can't just go on a whim. That will keep the majority of folks from looking at a B-29 as a sporty way to show up at an airshow. Not for the fainthearted.

Fifi is the Queen of the CAF fleet, that has been the montra that we have heard for years. Is she the center piece, absolutely. My one question is how many of the planes that are in restoration or "heavy" maintenance could be returned to flying status for the same 3 million to get Fifi back into the air. Here is where the rubber hits the tarmac, save the Queen or save the small units that make up a large portion of the CAF?
OK, that makes two questions, so take away my birthday and send me to sea.

Bill and others - I think that for the CAF, a flying B-29 Fifi is more valuable as a sort of "flagship" of the Ghost Squadron fleet and an attractor of visitors, supporters and members to the CAF. I don't think anyone can put a real dollar price on that. My 2 cents.

Randy

ok, ok, I KNOW I'm oversimplifying things here, and feel free to put me in my place, but if the Kee Bird guys managed to get 4 new B29 engines to the North Pole and (almost) fly the plane out after it had been essentially sitting outdoors unattended for 50 years....

B

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documenting restored B-17s and those undergoing restoration to flight:

You know, I hear that Headquarters gets people from some of the smaller units calling to complain frequently that they are trying to help get FIFI flying, but not anyone else. That's frustrating, because in reality, when FIFI is flying it DOES help the smaller units. I don't know the exact figures (Old Shep, FG-1Dpilot...a little help here?), but I do know that wherever FIFI goes, membership increases substantially...not just CAF membership, but the membership for whatever Squadron or Unit is hosting the B-29. That is not to mention the large amount of money and PR that FIFI generates for the CAF, locally and worldwide, in just one tour season.

So, I reckon what I'm saying is that, sure, several L-5's, PT's, or whatever, could be made to fly with the funding that will go into FIFI's re-engine program, but would it make the same impact to have them flying instead of FIFI? I think not. Now please...before I get flamed by everyone in the smaller Units and Squadrons, don't think for a minute that I don't realize the importance of you or the airplanes you restore, fly, and maintain. I think they are ALL just as important to the CAF in their own unique way. But without a doubt, having the B-29 back in the air will be hugely important to the entire CAF and all of it's Squadrons and Units out there.

Gary

The most people I have seen at the local GA airport is when Fifi comes to town. The secons is when a B-17 and B-24 come in.

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Chris Henry
EAA Aviation Museum Director

Yup. Definitely oversimplifying it.

No offense intended, but it's just not as easy as the NOVA program made it look. It took those guys a long time (in horrid conditions) to get the airplane ferriable so that it could then be restored for safe flight. Trust me, they had a LONG way to go with that airplane had they gotten it home.

Gary

I think you helped make my point, Sorta

I'm hear to learn, so please don't think anything I'm saying personally, because I don't know all the background, history, etc. Someone managed to get 4 new engines for a B29 to the North Pole and bolt them to the plane in less than ideal conditions. So...as an outsider who might like to help, I'd be curious and as what's the holdup on FiFi? Is it just money? Lack of parts? Politics? all the above?

B

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documenting restored B-17s and those undergoing restoration to flight:

The short story is that there are essentially none of the original B-29 engines left. But to make up for it, the few that are left that are still reasonable cores cost unreasonable amounts of money to get overhauled. For example, our last overhaul was in the $185,000.00 range, with our parts (since we're essentially the only ones that have servicable ones). The engines are extremely unreliable and our most recent one out of the shop from warranty work lasted a whopping 6.6 hours before it became full of metal. Now, the freshly overhauled one is still okay...for now. Who knows when it would crater? And how will we be able to afford it since the shop that overhauled them refuses to honor their warranty anymore (don't EVEN get me started on that one).

Something else to consider is that even though we could scrounge around and possibly find enough money and parts to overhaul the three engines on the airplane that are currently making metal, it would be a HUGE gamble, as the engines might last 800 hours or they might last 8 hours. I love the Wright R-3350, but the 3350's that were installed on the B-29 are the sorriest firewall forward I've ever worked on...period. Now, on the flip side of that...the 3350's that we are including in our re-engine program are from two of the latest and most reliable varients that Wright ever made and are fantastic engines. They are the -95 and the -26WD (engines from an AC-119 Gunship and the Douglas Skyraider). We are forced to make our own "hybrid" engines in order for them to fit and work properly on the B-29, with little or no visual difference with the aircraft (other than us not having to see us work on them every time it lands). This, of course, is just a very basic description of what we're going to be doing with the re-engine program, just to give you an idea.

We will also take this down time to remove the R/H outer wing panel to repair some corrosion. We have caught this corrosion before it has become a huge issue and it should be a relatively easy fix (in theory). I don't know if y'all recall, but the airplane (just prior to it's most recent engine woes) just went through 19 months of maintenance that included roughly 15,000 hours of our labor to accomplish. The list of what we did to it is lenghthy, so I won't bore you with it right now. I'll just put it like this...if I'd been doing a daily post of updates on WIX for the work we'd done on the B-29, the thread would likely contain at least twice the number of pages that the B-24 thread has been so far.

My point is that we are close to getting the airplane to where it needs to be. Sure, we're going to encounter some unforseen problems along the way, but this engine program is essential to the future of flight for our B-29. But we need everyone that wants to see FIFI to fly again to know that we've explored every avenue that we could think of and that we're doing what we think to be the best thing for the airplane. I can assure you that there is not another person on the planet that wants to see that airplane back in the air more than me.......and I intend to make it happen!

Gary