Who owns Lend Lease stuff on foreign soil?

Ztex · **Posted:** Fri Dec 14, 2007 10:29 am

The story of the P-39 in Russia got me to thinking.
http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/sheppard/p39/index.htm

Does the U.S. retain ownership of goods, like the P-39, that were sent overseas on the Lend Lease program? Like the Garand rifles that the CMP is currently selling. They are returned to the U.S. for disposal (sold to us)

Can this recovered airplane be legally sold by a private party? Or did the U.S. rescind it's ownership at some time in the past?

Just courious?

Asterperious · **Posted:** Fri Dec 14, 2007 12:12 pm

I believe Lend-Lease falls under the MAPS prohibitions and technically would not be able for re-imporation into the US, like Garands, Half tracks etc. etc.

P51Mstg · **Joined:** Tue Jan 25, 2005 11:36 am **Posts:** 1202

Well, CMP Garands belong to the US Govt so they are going to be different.

Who owns Lend Lease Aircraft? More than likely the country where it is located owns it, kind of like on the Pacific Islands.

I never thought of the MAPS before though. It would make you wonder on what would happen if you either wanted to buy a warbird that has been out of the country since WWII (seems like you can't bring it back in). Seems like that would apply to the SWAMP GHOST B-17 or the LADY BE GOOD B-24; but it also seems like you couldn't do it with a fully restored and flying P-51 or P-40 that has been in Australia since WWII and you want to bring it back in now.

Same thing with the trade in aircraft between US collectors and British collectors too. Could be a real problem. Maybe someone who has imported one recently should chime in here.

Mark H

gary1954 · **Posted:** Fri Dec 14, 2007 12:50 pm

I heard that an Prominent airline company in the South, got ready to buy an aircraft, it was flown from the American factory to Mexico City, bought in Mexico City and flown back into the US. No taxes, and No Import duties because the plate shows MADE IN USA or UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

bdk · **Joined:** Sun May 02, 2004 1:16 am **Posts:** 11336

The US still owns Lend/Lease and Military Assistance Program (MAP) aircraft. You cannot legally buy one and import it without US State Department approval. Part of the contract was that these articles were to be returned to the US or destroyed, and could not be (legally) sold to 3rd parties without US approval.

No duties are due for US built aircraft since they were domestically manufactured.

With the Garands, they were returned from overseas and then sold by the US government. If you bought a Lend/Lease or MAP Garand overseas, you technically could not import it, again, without state department approval.

The state department has said in the past that they may grant approval to import these items if they have historical value and will be displayed to the public. You would have to discuss the article in question with them. My info is pre-9/11 so some of the policies may have changed.

ATF&E (Form 6) approval may also be required for some articles.

gary1954 · **Posted:** Fri Dec 14, 2007 10:36 pm

And the gavel falls on the bench....Gentlemen, I believe the question has been answered.

jmkendall · **Posted:** Sat Dec 15, 2007 1:17 pm

I think this is a moot point. Or at least one that is no longer valid.

Examples of Lend Lease aircraft that have re-entered American Airspace include: All the B-24s from India; various p-39s,p-40s, p-63s from Russia, as well as the various p-40s from Austrailia and New Zealand. Not to mention that I suspect many surviving PBYs were originally Lend Lease Aircraft.

Joe

gary1954 · **Posted:** Sat Dec 15, 2007 1:33 pm

This may be in how these examples were procured, who the hell knows except for the guys that have 'em

bdk · **Joined:** Sun May 02, 2004 1:16 am **Posts:** 11336

These things change over time, generally getting more restrictive. As long as you get state department approval, you're all set!

Planes of Fame had trouble exporting the P-26 to the UK last year for a visit. What's up with that?

Asterperious · **Posted:** Sat Dec 15, 2007 3:43 pm

The latest law tightening began in 1997, the majority of the aircraft mentioned above all came back before 1997. If you tried now it would be nearly impossible. Also too a lot of aircraft of american origin were bought outright by other governments, during and after the war, and do not fall under any lend-lease MAPS type covenants.

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Who owns Lend Lease stuff on foreign soil?

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