First turret-equipped-bomber - Overstrand.

JDK · **Posted:** Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:03 am

First aircraft with a fully enclosed power-turret. Boulton Paul Overstrand.

The turret was fitted with one pan fed .303in machine gun, and was at the front, but you can't have all the good ideas at once, eh?

101 Squadron RAF, Bicester. (Photos by Paddy Heffernan, RAAF, exchange officer with the RAF, via RAAF Museum.)

MattP38 · **Joined:** Sat May 20, 2006 7:36 pm **Posts:** 273

That's a, um *ahem*............................................................................................................................................................ That's a look.

RMAllnutt · **Posted:** Mon Dec 03, 2007 10:07 pm

Isn't that the aircraft where the test pilot said that "The aircraft is difficult to enter... it should be made impossible"?

I also seem to remember that that was an apocryphal statement... but even if it was, it seems to fit!

Cool photos though... thanks James.

Cheers,
Richard

JDK · **Posted:** Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:01 pm

RMAllnutt wrote:

Isn't that the aircraft where the test pilot said that "The aircraft is difficult to enter... it should be made impossible"?

I also seem to remember that that was an apocryphal statement... but even if it was, it seems to fit!

I believe it was apocryphal. The types I've heard it attached to with a degree of likelihood are the Blackburn Botha (utter, utter failure) and Supermarine Dumbo. (Engine test bed, after being built for a bad idea.)

Actually the Overstrand was popular with its crews and quite highly rated with the RAF. And it had a turret that let the gunner actually claim to have hit the fighter, which made a change then. But this was one of 'the bombers which would always get through'. :shock:

The Sidestrand that proceeded it was capable of aerobatic manoeuvres such as loops, rolls and spins, and was 'relatively fast' for it's day, albeit with a small bomb load. I believe the Overstrand was also aerobatic, being essentially the same structure.

RMAllnutt wrote:

Cool photos though... thanks James.

I used to live where those photos were taken (Oxfordshire). Apart from the motorways (freeways) it's not changed that much. But the 'planes don't look so 'cool' these days. Carefree days of the best flying club in England.

Ryan Keough · **Posted:** Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:33 pm

What is the purpose of the structure at the extreme rear of the rudder? Is it some sort of rudder trim tab? With a rudder that size, I certainly think the pilot would get a slight cramp in any turn

JDK · **Posted:** Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:51 pm

Ryan Keough wrote:

What is the purpose of the structure at the extreme rear of the rudder? Is it some sort of rudder trim tab? With a rudder that size, I certainly think the pilot would get a slight cramp in any turn

It's their bar tab. :partyman:

No, actually, they each had a fixed target drogue for the others in the flight to shoot at, when bored. :rip:

Yes, it's the rudder trim. Sorry. I was boggled by: Apparently Boulton Paul were considering a retractable undercarriage version, called a 'Superstrand'. :shock:

Kinda Brit version of a Superfortress, without all those tedious technical difficulties, or a useful bombload.

They gave up on this kind of thing and went back to building sheds. You can tell they were shed builders, can't you?

Oh dear.

Ryan Keough · **Posted:** Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:21 am

JDK wrote:

They gave up on this kind of thing and went back to building sheds. You can tell they were shed builders, can't you?

With a turret enclosure like that, I should say they must have been pretty 'andy at making greenhouses and solariums as well... :lol:

Elroy13 · **Posted:** Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:36 am

Isnt someone in the process of restoring one?

JDK · **Posted:** Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:16 am

Ryan, you missed observatories - there's a slot and pnumatic rotation and hydrallic elivation built in and everyfink.

Elroy13 wrote:

Isnt someone in the process of restoring one?

Not as far as I know, but a good reminder. The Boulton Paul Association are building a new replica nose and turret arrangement. A remarkable achievement in itself, and making them the earliest turret recreators, I guess.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/markansell/bpa/

Mark may be along later. I'll give him a nudge...

gilt · **Posted:** Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:23 am

The tab is not rudder trim but rather a Servo Tab, the Servo Tab moves opposite to the direction of the desired rudder movement, essentially power steering. Servo tabs were rather common, but rarely so obvious, Boeing was a well known user of servo tabs on the 707, on larger aircraft before the days of boosted controls as speeds increased, they avoided large and heavy balance areas, and balance areas would have done little to reduce the breakout force required for initial deflection prior to the balance area having an effect. In some cases the control cables were connected directly to the Servo Tab, in more common useage the servo tab is geared to move opposite the control. On the BT-13/15 Vultee provded two dfferent mounting locations for the servo tab lineage so that the ratio could be changed for instrument training and aerobatics.

Tom-

JDK wrote:

Ryan Keough wrote:

What is the purpose of the structure at the extreme rear of the rudder? Is it some sort of rudder trim tab? With a rudder that size, I certainly think the pilot would get a slight cramp in any turn

It's their bar tab. :partyman:

No, actually, they each had a fixed target drogue for the others in the flight to shoot at, when bored. :rip:

Yes, it's the rudder trim. Sorry. I was boggled by: Apparently Boulton Paul were considering a retractable undercarriage version, called a 'Superstrand'. :shock:

Kinda Brit version of a Superfortress, without all those tedious technical difficulties, or a useful bombload.

They gave up on this kind of thing and went back to building sheds. You can tell they were shed builders, can't you?

Oh dear.

JDK · **Posted:** Tue Dec 04, 2007 4:53 pm

GilT wrote:

The tab is not rudder trim but rather a Servo Tab...

Ooops! Thanks GilT. Mea culpa.

Bar tab, servo tab. What's the difference?

Crew29 · **Posted:** Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:08 pm

You sure that isn't an early X-wing proto-type with R2D2 sitting up front...
sorry, it was a long day at work...

Mgawa · **Posted:** Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:43 pm

Interesting

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First turret-equipped-bomber - Overstrand.

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