Hawker Typhoon

sgt hawk · **Posted:** Tue Oct 30, 2007 8:56 am

This was an airplane that dominated the ground attack role late in the war, but it's tough to find any examples. Why? Was this not a favorite. Some of the Hawker Tempest V (early examles) reached 477 mph. Stipped of those 4 20mm hispanos and cockpit armor this would have raised a few eyebrows at the Reno Air Rases. What happened to all of them?

RMAllnutt · **Posted:** Tue Oct 30, 2007 9:44 am

They were nearly all scrapped within a year or two of the war, although some of the tempests lingered on as target tugs into the fifties. I agree with you though... they were magnificent aircraft. There is only one complete survivor of each type (Typhoon, and Tempest V), although a Tempest V hybrid does exist, and there are several Typhoon center sections being lovingly restored. Most RAF types of WWII were scrapped into oblivion. There are very few types which have more than a couple of survivors of the breed, and in those cases it was always because that type had some further use which kept it "alive" long enough to be recognized as a significant enough artifact to store somewhere. Sad, but true.

Richard

k5083 · **Posted:** Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:08 am

The Typhoon was a nightmare to operate and maintain and since the Tempest (especially the Mk.II) was better in every way, Typhoons had zero postwar value to the RAF or any foreign customer. They were scrapped so efficiently that not even one was preserved, and they were lucky to get the sole survivor back from the United States.

August

JDK · **Posted:** Tue Oct 30, 2007 6:18 pm

All correct except there's also a complete Tempest II in Kermit Weeks' collection and currently at Sun n Fun. Not airworthy, despite what I've been told!

The Fury was a Tempest with the centre section removed and other changes, and the Sea Fury a 'humped' Fury for deck landing visibility, so the heritage of the Hawker stable is alive and well and flying all over the world - even Texas.

We may well see one of the Napier Sabre-engine Tempest projects fly, more likely a Centaurus Tempest, but there's no current hope of a Typhoon rebuild.

The Napier Sabre was not an easy or particularly reliable engine. Anyone trying to get one certified is in for a world of pain and paperwork.

Dan Jones · **Posted:** Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:02 pm

RMAllnutt wrote:

and there are several Typhoon center sections being lovingly restored.

Really? Where? And how did they come to survive? I thought I remembered something about someone dredging up a Typhoon off the coast of France awhile ago or something...

Dan

sgt hawk · **Posted:** Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:21 pm

If I remember correctly the Napier Sabre was a double row radial but had a tendancy to catch fire or something. If I recall there were a couple variations with both developing in excess of 2,000 HP. I always felt that Hawker designed airplanes, were all practical, with good lines, and deadly. I believe the Huricane is credited with more kills than the Spit, but she just don't look as clean.
Didn't the original Typhoon have 12 50 cal Browning MG's, 6 per wing.
With the huge chin air intake and the amount of lead that thing would throw at you, no wonder the Germans called them Jabos

Pat Carry · **Posted:** Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:27 pm

Where are the surviving Typhoons?

Tillerman · **Posted:** Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:31 pm

k5083 wrote:

The Typhoon was a nightmare to operate and maintain

Read here why the Sabre was a difficult engine:
http://www.eagle.ca/~harry/aircraft/tempest/sabre/

A check flight in a Typhoon by Pierre Clostermann makes for a few minutes of good reading:
http://www.eagle.ca/~harry/aircraft/tem ... eckout.htm

Some good pictures of this, by all means large, engine:
http://www.msm.cam.ac.uk/phase-trans/20 ... age21.html
http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/A ... alk589.htm
http://www.khulsey.com/makoto_ouchi_napier_sabre.html

It's about time that some film footage with sound of a Sabre powered A/C emerges!

Tillerman.

Chuck Gardner · **Posted:** Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:42 pm

Kermit's Tempest in Lakeland, FL last year

JDK · **Posted:** Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:46 pm

sgt hawk wrote:

If I remember correctly the Napier Sabre was a double row radial but had a tendancy to catch fire or something.

It was a liquid cooled H inline, but the tendency to fire was correct. See Tillerman's post.

Quote:

I always felt that Hawker designed airplanes, were all practical, with good lines, and deadly. I believe the Huricane is credited with more kills than the Spit, but she just don't look as clean.

The correct credit is that 'during the Battle of Britain the Hurricane shot down more enemy aircraft than all the other defences combined'. (And thus significantly more than the Spitfire, in a critical battle only a few months long in 1940.) However the Spitfire as a type served in the front line throughout W.W.II, and I'm sure achieved more kills; the Hurricane was obsolete by 1941. There were a lot more Hurricanes in service than anything else in 1940 - they were easier to build and repair. The story that the Hurricanes attacked the bombers and the Spitfires attacked the fighters was an occasional intent at best; most of the time they attacked what they could as hard as they could. Hurricanes pilots managed to knocked down a lot of 109s, but no one and no type in 1940 had a huge advantage. Simplistically, in 1937 - 1940, the RAF had to have lots of Hurricanes, the Spitfire's success was its unexpected development and later achievements.

Quote:

Didn't the original Typhoon have 12 50 cal Browning MG's, 6 per wing.
With the huge chin air intake and the amount of lead that thing would throw at you, no wonder the Germans called them Jabos

You are correct that the proposal was for 12 x Brownings - the British just increased the number of .303s (not .50s) to increase firepower prior to W.W.II, so several types (the Hurricane and Typhoon) were proposed with 12 x .303 guns. They went to cannon, but also added the .50 later on.

The Typhoon and tempest entered service with 4 x 20mm cannon, but the primary ground attack success was achieved with rockets and bombs.

Cheers,

ezellaviation · **Posted:** Tue Oct 30, 2007 8:11 pm

And the sound of the Sabre was unlike anything else out there-

http://www.hawkertempest.se/sound.htm

AE

Mudge · **Posted:** Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:04 pm

Don't remember the year, but saw a Typhoon cockpit at Duxford. Looked like anyone over 5'2" and 125 lbs would have been assigned to fly something else. Tiny cockpit.

Mudge the too tall and too heavy

west-front · **Posted:** Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:50 am

I also believe there is a full scale glass fibre Typhoon replica in a Museum in Normandy.

JDK · **Posted:** Wed Oct 31, 2007 3:19 am

Mudge wrote:

Don't remember the year, but saw a Typhoon cockpit at Duxford. Looked like anyone over 5'2" and 125 lbs would have been assigned to fly something else. Tiny cockpit.

Mudge the too tall and too heavy

I think you are under estimating it a bit, although I agree, it looks small. There were a fair number of 6 ft Typhoon pilots, with sholders to match. Obviously you need a P-47, with the 'evasion in cockpit' scenario.

In general, I think we are somewhat prone to underestimating how much more space we expect today to 'back then'. From cars to church pews, houses and working spaces, there's been an expansion. (No comment over extra size people either.)

west-front wrote:

I also believe there is a full scale glass fibre Typhoon replica in a Museum in Normandy.

IIRC you are right.

The Typhoon projects I'm aware of seem to consist of dedicated enthusiasts who've gathered together parts and assembled them, with a lot of making missing bits etc. The largest I'm aware of is a cockpit, rear fuselage and tail.

Great find with the sounds AE, thanks!

Robbo · **Posted:** Wed Oct 31, 2007 3:37 am

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