Warbird Information Exchange

The snark is getting a bit too ramped up in the last few days, and a a message board administrator (not this one), I'd like to tell you what most likely comes next.

Phase One has been happening recently. Folks who are of strong mind and opinion yet short on diplomacy intimidate people with whom they disagree. Those who feel intimidated post less, or quit altogether. Others are not necessarily intimidated, but certainly feel put off by the atmosphere, and respond in the same way...they post less.

Phase Two has also begun...that's when the board admin tries to reconfigure things physically so that the snark can be separated from the general folk. Scott recently, as we all know, did exactly that.

Phase Three is the one which I would expect we will see shortly. That's when the admin/board op realizes that posters whom he values are being chased off by the more aggressive folks. There is nothing more frustrating as a board op than to see valuable posters and strong contributors getting chased off by atmosphere. This is when the board op has to take more drastic and direct action at the risk of seeing the community he cares about spiral into even more frustration.

This phase is when the board op starts suspending or banning instigators. Usually the board op starts with suspensions, because unfortunately instigators are usually also folks who bring decent contributions.

Unfortunately, suspensions usually are only a temporary fix. Bannannations usually result.

Let's head some of this off a bit. In the faceless world of the internet, it's easy to have great confidence in our own knowledge and opinion at the expense of others whom we do not know and haven't met. Someone recently opined here that if folks met in real life, they'd probably share beer and conversation, and without all the snark.

Let's cut to the chase here. Let's show each other, as well as Scott, more respect and not let these things get out of hand. This is a remarkably cool place, and I have to say that I have personally been enriched by things I've learned here. Scott has created that atmosphere, and let's be more respectful of and grateful for it.



*BTW, also in the standard progression of things, some sympathetic soul usually posts this thread. Sadly, it usually doesn't work. Far be it from me not to follow tradition.


Oh yeah...warbird/B-17/GML. I'm safe now.

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"Anyway, the throat feels a bit rough...the legs have gone...but I'm still able to chant, so let's get going."

Joe Strummer, 1999

Sadly alot of posters are more of lurkers how like jcw, Brad P. Skyraider Eric, ect ect.

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Don't touch my junk!!

I come to this forum to read and share info about warbirds. Everyone has their opinion or belief. I don't have an issue with someone if they disagree with me. Where I have an issue is when the disagreements turn to putdowns, name calling, flaming, etc.

I recently posted my opinion reference the naming of the B-17 Desert Rat on the Aero Vintage Forum. Another poster by the name of Dik Shepard disagreed with me and called me names because I had a different opinion. I'd seen this poster argue with others in that forum as well as this forum.

Long story short, I do not visit the Aero Vintage Forum anymore. I did post a final message to Dik letting him know I wasn't too fond of him. Because I want to read and share info about warbirds and not argue, I will not post there. I don't care to have an online argument here. So in closing I support the efforts of the administrators here not allow people to flame others.

Scott, Thanks for maintaining a great warbird forum

Scott has ALWAYS done an amazing job.
If there are a few bad apples ppl should just ignore them and carry on... sooner or later they'll get bored of not getting a fight and move on.

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Vintage Warbird & German WWII galleries @ http://zeeat.spaces.live.com/

I suppose that it would be too diificult to just discuss Warbird issues on the Warbird Information Exchange?

If people wish to discuss issues outside of Warbirds, why not either use the Private Message system or visit a Forum that covers such subjects?

Seems simple to me but then again I guess that I am the original Simple Simon!

Tony

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...and pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in Space cos there's bugger all down here on Earth!

Its a shame that some people hide behind the screen. This is a great web page and will continue due to Scott and the class of people like Eric, Jack and many others that make this the place to be. Its like giving and taking flight lessons, if you don't ask or tell, you'll never know or learn. If its wrong, asking is the only way to get it right. There is no such thing like a dumb question. If I don't know, I ask and if some one calls me names, well stand in line as I have been married for many years now and have heard them all. I have seen on other boards pages and pages of wasted time going back and forth. If you want to make someones day, call them up, I have nation wide free long distance, but I have better thing to do, like play golf You are here because of the name Warbird Information Exchange.

Lynn

If any of the following sounds like criticism, it's not. I have just come in the house from a two and a half hour slog in rush hour traffic and I'm going to do the best I can with what's left of my little grey cells.

I was very glad to see this matter come up as a member posting and discussion, as opposed to a pre-emptive action by the system operator. It gives me hope that the situation will now improve because those of us that are serious about being here will continue to contribute and discuss matters according to our experiences and knowledge - and that the boneheads that are causing the problem will lay low, or go away.

However, please don't think that such situations will go away anytime soon. In fact, if they do, they will quickly be replaced by another problem. This is just the way it is. A forum operator has to have a hard shell and the ability to think fast, make the right choices in his moderator staff and give them their individual marching orders.

At one time, I was the senior moderator on a very well respected aviation historical forum and the sysop used to call me the Celtic Barbarian because of the manner in which I swung a two-handed sword. My major responsibility was to make sure that copyright infringement was not a problem on the forum - and it wasn't, for a long, long time. Then, out of nowhere, some guy we really didn't know joined the forum and posted a pile of material that we all knew wasn't his. I called him on it, dumped the material and ...the forum was closed, because the legitimate copyright owner had been notified - by somebody - and a lawsuit was threatened. Years of serious study down the toilet.

On another historical forum, where I was simply just another member, I became incensed by a posting by one of the administrators, a Serb, in which he called the NATO allies that operated in Kosevo racists and mass murderers. I called him on it, asking him what right he had to use his admin powers to make such remarks, when the rest of us would have been censured for doing so. The operator of the forum (not a Serb) immediately banned me from the site for creating a flamer!

I think Scott can take heart in the fact that most of us are taking the situation seriously. We don't want pieces broken off what must be the most important and effective warbird forum on the net. I, for one, don't want to see anybody quit because of someone who is here to scream and yell, rather than discuss serious aviation topics.

There are always going to be 'situations'. It's up to us to show the operator that we can handle them like the adults we are.

Doug

My opinion may not be pertinent since I am not a big internet guy and I don't know what a "snark" is supposed to be. However I have been an acitve participant on Wix for a little over a year. I'd like an adult discussion. To me that means a free and open exchange of ideas, facts, and even opinions. The fourum suspended was "Off Topic", therefore having non warbird topics or variations should not be a problem. For those who only want to read about planes they can stay on "Hangar". As for copyright laws, if this is really that serious a problem, why did it not result in other forum halts? Obviously it is bad manners to insult someone personally with whom you disagree. I think suspension of that person is best, not the whole forum. Maybe the religeous one was in bad taste. But I hate to see censorship of ideas, and it seems like this may be it. Should it be just fine to show photos of a B-29 or B-52, as long as we don't examine issues of why or on who their bombs fell? Or maybe the strategy behind a war, or the C in Chief behind it all. Finally what is the validity of a persons convictions if they can't consider an additonal or opposing idea? How do you know if you are correct if you're never open to other points of view. I'm not real religious, but the teaching of the Ten Commandments and the Golden Rule have held up pretty well to examination over 2000 years.

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Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK

I can't believe no one beat me to this, but this, my friend is a Snark.

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"Anyway, the throat feels a bit rough...the legs have gone...but I'm still able to chant, so let's get going."

Joe Strummer, 1999

Being sort of a newbie here also and certainly not even close to being an expert of any kind in the realm of things that fly, I can tell you first hand that getting flamed or whatever the term is is not any fun! Like most here, I love coming in here and reading about the latest comings and goings in the historical aviation world. However, a few months ago I started a thread about converting a Privateer into a Liberator. From the majority of responses I got, one would think that I said the Beatles were more popular than Jesus! Holy Crap did I get flamed on that one! Since then, I tend to either not say/add anything at all to other discussions or I find myself acting like the adolescents who flamed me. Stupid for sure!

I don't like the downward trend that seems to be happening here. Is this a statement of society in general what is going on with this site or are we feeding off of each other? I for one will continue coming in here and looking for the threads which interest me and try my darnedest to be respectful.

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Earn my respect and never lose it.
Demand my respect and never gain it. -Me

...just another plane dreamer.

Great topic. I post on many forums and have received a lot of information on this one. I look at it this way.....I love the old warbirds. I am in no way an expert, just know that I like them. I know there are some people on this forum, and other fourms, that will complain if the markings on a plane are 1/64" from perfect position, or if the color of paint used should have had another 3.9123 oz. of white added per gallon to make the paint color "authentic". I don't post a lot here because I am here to LEARN. I have put my .02 worth in several times, maybe not always with the greatest of tact, but that is what is great about opinions...THEY CAN NEVER BE WRONG, you can only disagree with them.
Awhile back there was some controversy about someone's posting name...read the first couple of posts about it and then quit because it reminded me of when my children would throw a hissy fit about something that was totally uncalled for. I now realize that I should have offered to the complainer a pacifier, as that always seemed to calm my kids down.
Since the internet is mostly "faceless", there are a lot of people on it that try and show their "adultness" by name calling, snide remarks, putting other people down, and just by being downright mean spirited. More power to all of you that fit the above categories, as I am sure, that you are legends in your own minds.
I very much wish that anyone thinking of quitting the forum, or don't want to post here because of negative reaction, to please reconsider. NO ONE was born with knowledge, even the "experts" had to learn. When someone does a personal attack because you posted a question, or comment, that THEY thought beneath the forum, just picture them as a 2 year old, laying on the ground throwing a temper tantrum....a very accurate depiction (even if they are 1/64" off perfect center of the room! )
Thus endeth my rant for the day!!!

P.S. If anyone gets to the northern Colorado area, contact me. I would like to meet other forum members.

Darrell, you wrote an opinion on a public forum. It should have been open to response. If the response offerred some better idea or facts, then incorporate or modify your idea. If not, then follow your convictions .Maybe the best idea is something in between. But don't let your feelings be so sensitve that you quit WIX or try to get a forum censored. Sometimes people resort to personal attacks rather than countering an idea. It generaly shows the weakness of their character or their idea, possibly both. Don't let it get to you.

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Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK

I love this place. Some threads get into arguments which I consider WAAYY beyond minutae and I read on anyway because they happen to be on a subject in which I'm interested. I figure I just MIGHT glean a little knowledge out of the bickering. When they get to the point where they're no longer any educational value to me, I go on to the next thread. No animosity. Just move on. Let those involved get through their little catharses without me.
Every thread on the forum starts out on a specific subject. Some continue ad infinitum on that one subject. That's great. If you've got enough to say to make 3900 posts on a subject...go for it.
Some posts will make mention of something (not germain to the original subject) that triggers a thought in someone's mind and they post that thought. Then that thought sugues into something quite off the original topic and that can segue into a totally different branch off. Happens all the time. I've got no problem with that either. (How magnanimous of me, huh? )
When it comes right down to it, aren't we all just talking to each other"?

Mudge the conversationalist

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Land of the free because of the brave

That's the way I look at it too, Mudge. Can't figure out why some people feel the need to police everyone else, because we are , after all, just talking.

Though at times it would be helpful if I had someone close by to keep me on subject. Oh wait, I do, she's just not around all of the time !!

Rick, the wanderer

WIX: A mix of professional aviation photographers, pilots, WW2 historians, warbird experts.
Pity I am none of the above.
It has been wonderful to learn from all of you, but I don’t currently have much to contribute.
There just isn’t the demand to know about “software engineering” at a warbird site.

I go to the air shows… I learn about the aircraft… I ask the questions… but then what?
I don’t want to be one of those guys that starts to pester the pilot and ask for the serial off of the 3rd widget from the left.
(I am starting a 12 step program for that. I have already done this, ...bugged Bill to death about his Spitfire.)

I find this forum very enjoyable to read. When the opportunity arises to contribute something, I have done so.
I apologize to anyone I may have offended in the past with my "opinion".

Some people, (like myself) are only trying learn. As I have little to contribute, except for an opinion, I will make sure to "check myself".

I have found that many people here have some great stories to tell. Finding out what someone believes often puts a human face to it all.
It is great to tell my daughter, "I know John/Jane Doe flying that P-51".
Thanks to Scott for providing such a forum.

I would like to see the civil dialog continue, and the tolerance improve.
I am saddened that (jpeters…John ) left. He had many posts of interest, and now they are deleted. What a loss.
That resource is no longer available to me. Let try to keep that from happening again.

Regards,
Bluedharma (Paul Gordon)