62 YEARS AGO TODAY

HELLDIVERS · **Joined:** Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:38 pm **Posts:** 642

62 years ago today The United States dropped the first atomic bomb on Japan at 8:15 A.M. Many opinions have been expressed on the use of atomic bombs but I believe they have kept world peace or lack of worldwide warfare for over 60 years. Take a moment today to reflect on how our world was changed forever. The efforts to create the bomb that ended the last world war was one of the greatest efforts of modern man.Its end result brought mankind to the reality that global warfare could mean the end of man himself.

Thanks Mike

SCOTT G · **Joined:** Thu Nov 16, 2006 10:45 am **Posts:** 27

WELL SAID MIKE.

Robbie Stuart · **Posted:** Mon Aug 06, 2007 10:29 am

Amen Brother! :shock:

Robbie

Former Member · **Joined:** Mon Aug 29, 2005 1:40 pm **Posts:** 1493

Well said!!!

Just think of the alternative. Some casualty estimates for American forces invading the Japanese home islands hovered around 1 million!!! :shock:

One can only guess at the number of Japanese casualties.

The A-bomb saved far more lives than it destroyed.

John

Taylor Stevenson · **Posted:** Mon Aug 06, 2007 12:32 pm

My grandad was with the 380th BG in Okinawa and they were training the B-24 crews to place plywood strips in the bombbay to carry paratroopers for operation olympus. I'm here today because of that bomb.

Owen Miller · **Joined:** Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:28 pm **Posts:** 614

All the bleeding heart liberals in the world can have their
opinion. I am glad we saved that many American lives.
And, oh yea, little me and a lot of other folks on this board
might well not be here but for what Tibbets & crew did that
day.

Owen Miller

Bill Greenwood · **Posted:** Mon Aug 06, 2007 3:13 pm

If only one side of a question is asked it can limit the answer. If you say, "Should we have used the atomic bombs, knowing it would cause hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths including many children who bore no guilt for the war, in order to save the lives of 80,000 Allied troops who would have been lost in the invasion"?, the answer becomes obvious, especially for a president that owes his duty to the American people and sevicemen. This is the narrow discussion of the issue that those who favor the Bomb usually take. But what if you broaden the view? What if we neither used the Bomb or invaded without using it? Besides me, what person would even think of such an unpatriotic idea to worry about a few thousand kids? Who was it that said the Bomb was totally unnecessary, Japan was no longer a military threat to US and peace negotiations had already begun? I don't have the exact quote, but it was Gen. Dwight Eisenhower, for one.

HELLDIVERS · **Joined:** Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:38 pm **Posts:** 642

The use of the atomic bomb put an end to the bloodiest global war in mans history. Modern revisionists are determined to paint the United States as the great villians of the world for releasing the power of the atom against a well defended, fanatical and determind nation that would fight to the death to protect their country. Its easy to sit in your over stuffed easychair and say how things should have been handled 62 years later but the truth of the matter is Japan was prepaired to fight to the bitter end.Talk to any of the surviving vets of the pacific war and they will tell you that the Japanese were a very determind enemy,there was no shortage of brutality on their part. All war has an end result, a winner and a loser.What if Japan or Germany would have developed the A bomb first would they have held back on using them against us? Not very likely we could all be in a very different situation if it weren't for the efforts and determination of our leaders,scientists,and military personel that made the ultimate sacrifice so that we would enjoy the freedoms that we take for granted everyday. You can sit back and second guess the decisions made over sixty years ago by people who were a little closer to the situation than we are in our modern world. We can judge them for their efforts to make ours a better world and say they should have done this or that but the reality is it could have easly gone the other way.If you enjoy the freedoms that we have today thank that vet for their efforts and dont let the modern arm chair experts change the true facts of history. These so called experts would have more luck at changing modern history by becoming human shields against enemy targets than trying to sell out the efforts of our past generations.

Thanks Mike

Bill Greenwood · **Posted:** Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:55 pm

Hey, I might be wrong, after all what did that guy Eisenhower know about fighting a war against a brutal and fanatical enemy, or anything to do with an invasion? He mostly sat around in his overstuffed armchair drinking brandy with Churchill. As for as fighting to the death, once peace negotiations were finished, with a very few isolated exceptions, the Japanese accepted the surrender, peace and occupation and there was not sabotage or sniping against our troops. Why wasn't a little more effort given to peace negotiations before use of the bomb? Germany had surrendered, Japan had no nuclear weapon to use against us. It may be the US govt wasn't too interested in a negotiated peace, without the Bomb at the end. The simple explanation could be our govt wanted revenge on Japan; after all even when the first drop was made the 2nd one was underway in 24 hours. The Japanese weren't really given much time to debate peace. I think it is more comples than revenge, I'd guess the Bomb use was also to put the Russians on notice.

Owen Miller · **Joined:** Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:28 pm **Posts:** 614

Mike, you phrase it well. I have grown tired of being
tolerantly polite. Anyone who does not agree needs to
go talk with some Pacific War Marines. Ask them about
how brutal, fanatic, and merciless the Japanese were. Ask
them about young US Marines being skinned alive so
their buddies would hear their agonized screams for help,
expose themselves, and be shot. Then go talk with some
former POWs, some Bataan Death March Survirvors if you
can find any left. Find some of the Navy Nurses who were
captured in the Philippines; ask them about innocence. Find
some ex-intel guys and ask them about cannibalism among
the imperial Japanese army. Ask the Chinese about Unit 731.

Take your pity and smug self riteousness and put it where
it belongs-----with the Japanese victims!!!!!!!

A few years ago I'd offer you a list of folks to talk with, but
they're all in a better place now. Anyone who wants a
reading list I can help out.........

bdk · **Joined:** Sun May 02, 2004 1:16 am **Posts:** 11324

Bill Greenwood wrote:

If you say, "Should we have used the atomic bombs, knowing it would cause hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths including many children who bore no guilt for the war, in order to save the lives of 80,000 Allied troops who would have been lost in the invasion

How many Japanese civilian deaths would be acceptable to prevent the deaths of 80,000 Allied troops? Is the number 80,000? More? Less? Zero? I'm curious what in your opinion is the acceptable ratio.

What if they talked the talk about surrender but didn't walk the walk (delaying tactics)? How long would you wait while Allied troops were dying?

Obergrafeter · **Posted:** Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:11 pm

Maybe rants like this one is one reason that Bill is such an easy person to pick on. How can one person be so wrong in his political "persuasion" In all the exerts on Viet Nam and other entries I have held my tongue, but this one takes the cake. I am a student of history especially WWII and I want you to tell me page and verse where Ike said the bomb or invasion were unneccesary, and invite you to read Flyboys for an explanation of the "revenge" issue. By the way where was your grandfather and father on August 6, sixty two years ago? Thats what I thought.

Owen Miller · **Joined:** Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:28 pm **Posts:** 614

For twenty years I wrote Gen Tibbetts every August to thank him
for what he and his men did. As the years went by and I learned
the addresses of the other Enola Gay crewmen I did the same
with them. Because of them my Dad survived the war and I am
here. It's still REAL personal to me. I only wish I could still write
the General.

JDK · **Posted:** Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:47 pm

For those interested in a bit more than ranting or stirring (I think some folks are going to have to agree to differ here, and if you can't be polite, don't post...) there's an interesting post on FP by 'Alertken'. It takes a bit of interpretation, but AK's post are always insightful and go a bit further than the accepted wisdom. 'LMF' is 'Lack of Moral Fibre' a classification given to airmen who broke under the strain - i.e. cowardice. Another can of worms.

Quote:

There was discussion of a demo (said to have been) urged by some of the scientists. FDR's technical advisor Adm.Leahy, explosives man, had expected it to be "a dud", and despite Trinity success was there fear of egg on face if we previewed what might be a fizzle? Chomsky conspiracy theorists have it that after concealing $2Bn. from Congress, Truman needed payoff.

For me: 1) a demo would suggest LMF - no stomach for it, provoking pre-emption on PoWs; 2) we were losing fine young men every minute; 3) we (thought we) knew Japan could not deliver an A-Bomb on W Coast, but Allied centres Darwin, Nanking, Calcutta were in range. We did not know they had no Bomb; we did know German material had reached them. P.Henshall, Project Downfall has a Japanese seaplane-carrying sub onway to lay a radiation store on LA. Time was not our friend: No.2 nearly did not get dropped - USS Indianapolis brought it to Tinian, was sunk as it turned to go get No.3. Bustle, bustle!

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=30188

In the same thread John Boyle (Hi John) says:

Quote:

If a tree falls in a forest and there is no one around to hear it, does it make a noise?

First...Find an uninhabited island that the Japanese were watching...would they believe the US? Would they think it was just an island filled with lots of conventional ammo set to go up in a spectacular fashion?

The Japanese had made their stance clear...fight 'till the last.

Why didn't the RAF send a nasty note to Hitler saying...
"If you don't shape up, we'll bomb Dresden?"
Or..."We have this neat really secret bomb that destroys dams...in fact it's so secret, we won't even show it in the film that will be made ten years from now.
so please surrender or we'll use it.

If we want to play "what if" try this.
If you were Churchill & FDR and had the bomb in 1943, would you have used it to end the war that much earlier?
Imagine all the losses from D-Day and the final push into Germany being avoided...the concentration camps being emptied sooner.

Seems to be about the same decision Truman faced in '45.

Regards,

JDK · **Posted:** Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:49 pm

Owen Miller wrote:

I only wish I could still write
the General.

Just curious, why can't you?

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