Warbird Information Exchange

Looking at the cool thread on the Pima Air Museum updates, it got me thinking that it seems that a lot of the F-14s going on display are being given fresh paint jobs. While I can understand this, to a degree, if the aircraft are being displayed outdoors, does it not seem odd for instance that the NASM would have had the Navy give theirs a fresh paint job before going on display? You'd think that they would have wanted to preserve the original livery, considering the similar treatments on the P-38 and P-61.

I guess what I'm getting at is that one would think that a certain premium would be put on keeping an aircraft preserved wearing its last service uniform, so to speak.

Don't get me wrong, I am happy just to see them be preserved at all, especially considering the drama surrounding this aircraft type.

cheers

gv

The F-14D at Prairie Aviation Museum in Bloomington, IL is in its original colors "fresh" from VF-213's last cruise. You're quite right - it has more character with all the paint patches and "wounds" to be seen on the airframe.

Enjoy the Day! Mark

The F-14 at pcam is a glaring example. Its repainted in VF-1 colors using glossy paint....looks terrible but at least its preserved!

There is one at the Estrella Warbird Museum that appears to be in the original colors.

You're right preserving original markings is important but paint only lasts so long on aircraft that are displayed outdoors. This link shows what the plane looked like before we redid it.

http://www.pimaair.org/Acftdatapics/Grumman%20F-14A.htm

The paint was faded and dirty and just generally didn't look good. We took great care to select a paint scheme that our airframe actually flew in and made sure we used the correct colors. There is some loss of authenticity but it is unavoidable in some cases. Just to contrast take a look at our FM-2;

http://www.pimaair.org/Acftdatapics/GM%20FM-2.htm

This one has its original paint as it was recovered from the bottom of Lake Michigan. We won't be repainting it when we do the restoration. New parts will be done to look fresh but the originals will be left alone. You have to strike a balance between long term preservation and originality.

James

James

I agree; for the outdoor displays the original paint isn't going to last long or do much for the airframe, and good on you guys for picking authentic schemes.

You guys do amazing work, and that Wildcat should be a treat to see when its done.

cheers

gv

MAP's Tomcat is in its paint from its last flight/service.

For what it's worth...folks should know that '70s era F-14 Tomcats WERE painted in glossy paint. Same with F-4 Phantoms. I know; I was there.

When we received a freshly refurbed bird (F-4s in my squadron's case) from the NARF (Naval Air Rework Facility), it was right purty, all glossy and new-looking. It was while in service with the fleet that the paint eventually became "flattened", mostly due to the regular washings with Turco solvent and 3M scrub pads. plus the usual boot and tool abuse, fuel, hydraulic fluid, oil and solvent spillage, and salt air effects aboard ship.

So in fact, a freshly restored bird SHOULD be shiny. It was in the late '70's and beyond that the paint became non-specular ("flat"). As I mentioned, I was in a Phantom squadron, and our first all-gray bird was painted up that way for the NAS Oceana air show in 1977. That was gloss paint though. By the time I left the squadron in 1979, I was seeing a lot of corrosion control patching work in flat colors, so it's probably safe to say the conversion occurred over a period of time between late 1977 and 1980 sometime. I'm sure someone out there can provide more exact dates as to when the flat tactical schemes were officially sanctioned by Navair order.

So you guys out there restoring your Navy jets to 70's color shemes are correct in using glossy paints, unless--like modelers--you want an in-service, "weathered" look; in that case, non-specular would be appropriate (just don't forget to hold a dance up on the wings with everone wearing freshly polished boondockers (flight deck boots) and bumping into each other and spillin' hydraulic fluid, fuel, oil, etc. all over the plane to give it that "authentic" look!)

--Tom
Phormer Phantom Phixer

Hey Tom,

I saw a QF-4 fly at Dayton last month and it was glossy. I thought it looked like one of my early efforts at model-building when I didn't know the difference between flat and gloss paint. Anyway, this isn't a great picture, but hopefully the "shine" shows up.




Dave G

The NASM Tomcat had been in storage out at Dulles for several years prior to going on display. While not necessarily a bad environment (unlike the Connie it was under cover in their big storage building at the airport), it wasn't all that great either. I saw some pictures of when it was pulled out and the paint was in pretty bad shape. Since the aircraft was put on display as part of the museum's "Tomcat Sunset" event my guess is that the museum wanted a clean aircraft to act as a backdrop to all the VIPs at the ceremony. The guys from VF-31 that came up to do the repaint tried to be as faithful to the operational scheme as possible - they even recreated the "I gave so others could fly" medal on the nose.

The P-38 is a fully-restored aircraft that has been artifically weathered to look as a typical P-38 would have looked after time spent in the South Pacific. At least that's what I was told by a docent/volunteer at the museum - the aircraft had finished its career doing test work out at Wright-Pat (where it was flown by Bong), probably in natural metal. When the aircraft was being restored one of the P-38 pilots' associations apparently asked for the aircraft to be made to look as if it were operational ... and NASM complied with their request.

Nice USAF Phantom photo you posted there, Valkyrie! I love that angle on an F-4...and yes, the shine does show nicely.

Your docent must have been pulling your leg, or unsure of the truth. The P-38 wasn't artificially weathered. What you are seeing is sympathetic "conservation" rather than restoration. The aircraft was cleaned, and conserved, but not restored... there is a big difference. The paint is original from when it was last in service.

Cheers,
Richard

PS. Dick Bong actually flew this aircraft when it was at Wright-Pat.

_________________
Richard Mallory Allnutt - Photography - http://www.rmallnutt.com

Well, personally, if our museum ever gets an F-4 my vote will be for gloss black with a bunny on the tail! Gotta love those VX-4 colors. Or maybe the wild "eagle" Bicentennial F-4 colors. . . . or a nice bright "sundowners" CAG scheme. . . .

Tom P.

The OV-10 assn. in Ft. Worth has, so far, left their F-14 in original colors.



and the Texas Air Museum in Slaton, TX has not been painted either...

_________________
Zane Adams
There I was at 20,000 ft, upside down and out of ammunition.
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