Warbird Information Exchange

Anyone got any information as to whats happening with the rare B-24 at Werribee and how she is going?

Shame they can have it fly but if they can get her to ground run maybe will be good start. Hope they can provide more information as we aussies are keen to keep track of her progress...

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Fighters pilots are born to make movies , bomber pilots make HISTORY, cargo crews haul their material and fame.

Just did a quick search and found this news..

THE B-24 Liberator Restoration group may soon get a new multi-million-dollar home to complete its historic project.

The group is rebuilding the World War II long-range bomber – believed to be the only one left in Australia – in Hangar Two at the Old Werribee Airfield.

However, a proposed joint housing development by VicUrban and Melbourne Water, the owner of the land, could see the Liberator group move into the nearby Hangar One, once it is refurbished.

All parties are awaiting for the plan to be approved by Heritage Victoria, which has listed the hangars, standing on the site of a wartime airfield, for its historical significance.

Kirsten Howe, VicUrban’s communications manager, said a decision should come from Heritage Victoria within about four weeks.

“We see the B-24 group as one of our greatest assets in the overall development and we want to make sure they have a suitable home for their project,” she said.

“Hangar Two is actually not big enough for when the wings go on the plane, but Hangar One provides a sufficiently larger space.

“We intend to refurbish Hangar One, retaining its heritage features, at a cost of between $3 million and $4 million.

“The group’s project is of great historical significance to the state and Australia.”

VicUrban conducted an assessment of both hangars before deciding Hangar One was the better option for refurbishment.

Permission is being sought from Heritage Victoria to lift its listing from Hangar Two so it can be demolished.

VicUrban plans to develop the 197-hectare site with energy-efficient residential housing, retail and leisure facilities. The development is to be called River Walk.

As well as the restoration of Hangar One, it is proposed that 2.56 hectares of adjacent land be developed as a memorial park.

The B-24 Liberator would take pride of place, along with other wartime artefacts and displays.

Talks on the project are proceeding with the Wyndham City Council and the Werribee Historical Society.







VicUrban is also working with the B-24 group to assist them in developing a business plan to ensure their future viability.

“The B-24 plane would be a great attraction for the area,” Ms Howe said.

“It would have educational value, with school groups visiting, and would also be good for tourism.

“This proposed development would be a win-win situation for everybody.”

The B-24 group has written to Heritage Victoria, stating its full support for the plan.

Secretary Judith Gilbert said it would be a great relief to the 400 members to be able to proceed with the establishment of a fine community asset which will have a unique appeal in Australia.

“Our plane is one of only eight, of the 19,000 built, remaining in the world,” she said.

“It is classified by the National Trust as an Item of National Significance.

“At the end of World War II, the 300 Liberators left in Australia were sold off for scrap metal.

“We were fortunate to find a fuselage of one of the planes on a farmer’s property in Moe and we got the wings and tail from Papua New Guinea.

“The B-24 Liberator was used to successfully defend Australia against invasion.

“We are restoring it as a memorial to the 20,000 Australians and US servicemen who flew and maintained these aircraft.”

The restoration project recently achieved a big leap forward with the successful fitting of the nose and pilot’s canopy to the body of the plane.

The B-24 group, which exists on donations from its members and interested parties, hopes to complete the restoration by 2010.

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Fighters pilots are born to make movies , bomber pilots make HISTORY, cargo crews haul their material and fame.

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Fighters pilots are born to make movies , bomber pilots make HISTORY, cargo crews haul their material and fame.

i was down there a couple of weeks ago and whilst the work is slowing as they wait for the decision on the move they are looking forward to it as it means they will be able to display the lib and some other aircraft that they hope to restore and also be able to run up the b24 occasionly

inside the soon to be fitted ball turret.

the nose and cockpit simulater.

i cant remember what part this is

and last i think my favorite bit their mini lib billy cart it was built for a billy cart race but the organiser's wouldn't it run when they found out the age of the driver(or pilot)was over 80 ,he is a former liberator pilot
paul

Gary wana come to oz and take a holiday and help the old men fix their toy up.. everyone would benenfit from you been here

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Fighters pilots are born to make movies , bomber pilots make HISTORY, cargo crews haul their material and fame.

Anyone know if Colin Grey is still involved with her? We used to e-mail a bit as I tracked down a nose turret for them.

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It was a good idea, it just didn't work.

Dan,

Last I heard he was, although it's been awhile since I've heard from him. I had helped him and another guy out with some ball turret parts manuals.

John

The move to the larger hangar is good news if all goes as planned. It's interesting that the folks at Werribee are interested in preserving the hangar and "retaining it's heritage features" rather than ripping it down to make room for "airfield improvements." Two WWII B-29 hangars at Great Bend, Kansas are slated for demolition (if they already haven't been) because the politicians don't see any value in the historical structures.

Keep up the good work on that beautiful Liberator, hopefully we can get down there next year to see the project in person.

Scott

Are the plans to restore this one to FLY ?

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Always Keep Em Flying !

Glen

Lookie Capt Jim! Wham! Wham! ...............................Termights

There were never any plans to fly this aircraft. It has always been a static-only restoration. It is amazing that the aircraft survived in the first place, all things considered.

Cheers,
Richard

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Richard Mallory Allnutt - Photography - http://www.rmallnutt.com

Scott,

what is interesting and unfortunate is that both of these heritage hangars are heritage listed and already preserved, this proposal is by Vic Urban, a property developer who will develop the land adjacent to these hangars (and knock down two other remaining hangars) who know proposes to restore Hangar 1 for the B24, but knock down Hangar 2 and sell off its land for housing.

Hangar 1 is the last 120' width hangar of this design remaining in Victoria and one of @ 4 surviving in Australia, while Hangar 2 is one of three 90' width hangars of this design surviving in Victoria and Australia, but unfortunately all three exist at Werribee and will be demolished by Vic Urban under this proposal, not a very good result for preservation at all.

The National Trust and other Aviation/Heritage groups have opposed the Vic Urban proposal lodged to Heritage Victoria. While proposing to spend $3M? on the B24 Hangar, Vic Urban is likely to reap over $10M from the sale of the land removed from the Heritage Register - certainly a "win-win" from their point of view, but a poor result for heritage.

Regards

Mark Pilkington

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20th Century - The Age of Manned Flight
"from Wrights to Armstrong in 66 years -WOW!"

As much as the developer should be applauded for least some help in the B24 inssue i agree they are destroying history to make a big fat profit.. that shouldnt happen but then the B-24 assoc is caught catch 22 between new space and money.. bloody shame ... a fair dinkum developer would listen to history...but they arent common nowdays.

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Fighters pilots are born to make movies , bomber pilots make HISTORY, cargo crews haul their material and fame.

Mark,

I'm sorry to hear that side of the story. I should have known that the hangar refurbishment had strings attached. It seems that the aircraft were thrown away almost immediately after the war and that the structures built for the military are being destroyed one at a time all these years later in the name of "progress". I learned just yesterday that the Spartan School of Aeronautics WWII hangars and classrooms are being sold to the Tulsa, Oklahoma Airport Authority so that a more convenient parking and road system can be built. I got my airframe license while attending this historic old school complex. You certainly have my support with regard to saving both hangars (for what that is worth) and I wish you all well. Now I'm going to see if Brooke Tatnell can win the Knoxville Nationals--the "A" main is just about to start!

Scott

Some answers!

It was never the itent to fly this airplane.

It is the intent to make it able to taxi

They hope to have two engines operating at first

Colin Grey has had to retire through poor health

Regards

Col Tigwell
Downunder

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Vietnam Vet and proud of it.

Personally I have always been concerned with the situation the Liberator Group finds itself in. Single aircraft museums such as this proposal have a nasty habit of going down the drain. The visitor base simply won't support the ongoing costs of the operation no matter how elaborate the hangar may be or how large the amount of money spent on it. In the US we saw this phenomenon with the Hughes flying boat at Longbeach and many years ago the same problem occured with the Sunderland at Pembroke Dock. It would be naive in the extreme to believe that group membership will support the project into the indefinite future and it is hardly likely that local council will pick up the tab: many are well aware of what happened at Wangaratta Airworld.

If, indeed, the Liberator Group has it heart set on staying at Werribee then attempts to keep preservation orders on all the hangars puts them between a rock and a hard place. If the hangars are retained, the developer will either pull out or appeal to the courts. Either way the Liberator loses because it will stay in a leaky, derelict and insufficiently large hangar. Unfortunately Sabredriver, property developers do not have hearts of gold and I suspect the only reason they are making the offer to refurbish Hangar 1 is to provide a compromise which will allow them to redevelop most of the site.

Even if this compromise can be achieved, it will bury the Liberator in the wilds of outer suburbia and as for running up the engines and taxiing the aircraft - not a hope. The residents would scream blue bloody murder at their peaceful weekends being shattered by the roar of aero engines. We may like it but 99.9% of the public doesn't. In addition the aircraft would leak oil everywhere and would be fuelled, or at least, full of fuel fumes which makes it a fire hazard in a public place.

The better option, in my opinion, would be to send the Liberator to Point Cook where it could be displayed in context and where, around 8,000 people a month would see it. Ongoing, institutional funding would ensure that it survived into the forseeable future.

That may not be the ideal solution as the Liberator Group sees it but from my point of view, as someone with over 30 years of experience in this business, it is the most practical solution to what will become an increasingly difficult problem.

Regards
Keith Gaff