Warbird Information Exchange

I recieved a call from Stan Peterson re his accident in the CAF Twin Beech. He has serious injuries, broken femur, 3 ribs, minor cuts but not life threatening. The co pilot had cuts bruises no breaks, neither had any real burns. The cause appears to be failure of both engines due to loss of oil. They had those recycle or clean type drain valves on the lower clyinder rocker arms, and somehow they got left open. So a warning to anyone who has these on any radial, make sure they or closed preflight or I guess there is a spring loaded type that closes automatically. The plane had seat belts, but no shoulder harness and they hit trees on the way down breaking the windscreen. Stan kept control of the plane as best he could. They wern't that high when it happened.

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Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK

Thank god nothing worse took place.

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Chris Henry
EAA Aviation Museum Manager

I am glad to hear that they both are ok , and neither had any real burns.
That is the most important thing.



Were they simulating a engine failure??? That is what the NTSB Preliminary said. Is that true?

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20070730X01039&key=1

My R-755B2 has a drain valve on the lower oil return valve. I leave it closed normally - the only time I ever opened it was when I had a lock. (It didn't help) I don't have a proper 'clean-kit' but my understanding of the way they work is it is automatic. I'd rather deal with a messy belly than a real catastrophe.

Why were they not able to feather the props?

The oil supply to the feather pumps comes from the bottom of the oil tank. The oil supply for the engines comes from a standpipe further up in the oil tanks. This assures a seperate oil supply for the props from the engines.

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If God had wanted man to fly behind a flat motor, Pratt Whitney would've built one.

I don't know many details, I am not a D18 expert at all, I suppose the props feather by oil pressure and if all the oil ran out the open drains on both engines there was none left to feather the props. They had been practicing one engine, but I believe had unfeathered and gone back to both engine operation when the problem occured. They use the drains to sump out the oil in the lower clyinders when parked and recycle it, I think T-6 an T-28 owners may do the same. There may be a NTSB prelim report out.

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Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK

Even if all of the oil ran out for the engines, there is still enough in the bottom of the tank to feather the prop, even if the engine is seized.

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If God had wanted man to fly behind a flat motor, Pratt Whitney would've built one.

Sky, it is always easy to fly a desk, or a desktop, and say how another pilot should have done it better. Perhaps you have a lot more experience with engine out twin landings than they do. My only one was in a T-34, about the easiest plane to land short of a glider. I hope I never have to do one for real in anything else. My post was to let folks know these guys survived and alert others to possible problem with the drains.

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Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK

Bill, I think we have a misunderstanding here. I think the semi-question being posed here is that the oil tank on most P&W radials (especially those with Ham-Stan props) is setup where there should be sufficient oil left in the sump for the propeller hub in case of loss of engine oil to still be able to feather the propellers. So, if Stan was unable to get the props to feather, what could have happened to cause that "reserve" of oil to leave the engine and make it impossible to feather the prop?

My response to this is -

I'm not really even well acqainted with the D18, so my question is- was the aircraft equipped with feathering pumps? If not and the engines stopped too quickly, it's possible that there was insufficent pressure to feather the props. If it was equipped with feathering pumps, then it's a question that will have to be answered by the NTSB in the final report on the accident.

Sorry to bother everyone, but this is the first I've heard of this accident... when and where did it happen? Is it the same Beech that would have been in Niagara Falls this year?

I don't know if it was in Niagara Falls or not, but you can find out more here on the accident here:
http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/p ... hlight=c45

Here is a link to a follow up media story about the accident.
http://www.ktre.com/Global/story.asp?S=6871979&nav=2FH5
Glad they made it out!
Robbie

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Fly Fast Make Noise!

I don't know much about feathering on the C45, but what difference does it really make? If both engines quit due to all the oil running out the drains you are going down. Feather may help the glide angle, or descent rate, but it isn't going to levitate. I am thankful they kept control.

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Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK

Im just glad to know there were no life-threatening injuries...

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Taylor Stevenson

Interesting discussion. Even if the drain was left open, it would take a long time for all the oil in a C45 to run out. There are standpipes to allow enough oil to remain in the event of a loss of oil for feathering, as was mentioned. Over the years of flying multi-engine aircraft I have come across a few that would have normal feather checks on the ground but would not feather in the air. On the C-45 I used to operate, we would feather each prop at least once a year in the air just to make sure it would still feather when needed.

My 2-cents fwiw.

Glenn

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"Remember....it's always better to overshoot and have people think you can't land than to crash and prove it!"