Warbird Information Exchange

Just watched the 1943 movie "Air Force" on TCM the other night with John Garfield, I used to watch this movie on Saturday mornings when I was a child ... great fun. Howard Hawks the director was a close friend with Hap Arnold, so Hawks got all kinds of good support and good stuff from the USAAF. See the great footage of P-39's and a B-18 bolo in the background of one shot.

Questions? ... the narrator stated at the end of the movie that the B-17D "Mary-Ann" went to war right after the movie was completed and that she was destroyed in combat ... could this be true?

Were there B-17D's in combat service after 1943? I know "swoose" was out there, but I don't believe any D's were flying bombing missions at that time. Later models were in service by Dec. 1941.

Any good feedback by you heavy's?

Mark (just call me "Hellcat")

I love this movie. It is my favorite. My favorite time period and love the shots of the men running during the air raid at Clark. Lt. Raider, "LET'S GET THIS THING OUTTA HERE!".

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Thats one movie I cant believe I havent seen!

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Trae

It actually wasn't a B-17D but a B-17B. Check out the discussion here:

http://aerovintage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=170

and then look at this for some more discussion:

http://www.aerovintage.com/airforce.htm.

Though the B-17B Mary Ann remains unidentified, there are some clues. At least three other of the B-17s used in Air Force were B-17Bs with fuselages upgraded to B-17D specs. Apparently the Air Corps had Boeing or someone else rework the airplanes to upgrade them, something that is generally missing in the volumes of material written on the B-17.

There is just about zero chance, or maybe less, that any of the B-17s that appeared in Air Force subsequently saw combat.

Im pretty sure it was a B-17C. The movie plane did not have cowlings so it is not a D. Are you sure its a B? I thought B models had bubble side blisters. Not smooth?

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Now that's good stuff .... I wonder where the narrator got his information about the "Mary-Ann" going off to war. Seems that TCM, over any other station, would get their facts straight before stating them to the masses.

Course, the way the media has been lately? ..... lolol ....

Well, like I said, Boeing or someone else refitted the fuselages, or at least the armament, to a D configuration, or maybe a C configuration. The armament was pretty similar between a C and a D. The bubble just aft of the cockpit, for the mission commander, is offset on the B but not on the D, and it can be seen in the film that the Mary Ann and several of the others had offset bubbles. The main clues for the "B" ancestry are the oil coolers on the nacelles and the cowling configuration. And, as you noted, no cowl flaps which would, in fact, be the case if the wings and engines were not refitted as the armament apparently was. More research is needed on this whole little topic, but a close look at the photos proves pretty conclusive.

We have folks who have traced the rivet patterns of the skin panels for the Mary Ann vs. the standard B-17D and there is definitely signs that the waist windows were modified on the former.

Interesting stuff to about 0.000001% of the population, but that's us.

Now THERE'S someone with way to much time on their hands !!

Hey, easy there.Its what we do for a living. A ton of research went into finding what plane it actually was.

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Hang The Expense

My wife would not agree with you, but I find time to do
important (to me) B-17 things.

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-Bill
B-17E 41-2595 "Desert Rat" Restoration Team

I wasn't referring to the honored past time of researching aviation details, Lord knows I'm just as guilty as the rest of you, BUT, I've never counted skin rivets. Usually mods can be seen by looking at the patterns without actually COUNTING the rivets.

And Dry Martini, I have spent many hours researching the history and working on a certain A-26 that's out behind the barn at Michaels place.

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-Bill
B-17E 41-2595 "Desert Rat" Restoration Team

While we're on this subject, does anyone have photos of any of the Y1B-17's in service during the early part of the war? Those are the most interesting early Fortresses to try to find good information on, and any help would be appreciated!

Scott

I remember seeing this mentioned in one of the original reviews of the movie from 1943; probably came straight from the press kit from the studio. More likely it was wrecked in a training mishap, and the story got embellished by either the studio or the USAAF.

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All right, Mister Dorfmann, start pullin'!
Pilot: "Flap switch works hard in down position."
Mechanic: "Flap switch checked OK. Pilot needs more P.T." - Flight report, TB-17G 42-102875 (Hobbs AAF)