Warbird Information Exchange

When people talk about about "Fresh Water Recoveries" most of the time they're talking about Lake Washington, Lake Murray, Lake Michigan and maybe even Lake Mead.

I was wondering, what about Lake Erie?


I did a quick search and came up with a couple aircraft:



Curtiss SB2C-4 Helldiver,

BuNo. 65037, VT-97
Flathatting on L. Erie on 19 June 1945


Also:

Curtiss Y1P-22 = P-6E Hawk

Ser No. 32-240, Missing over L. Erie, 24 Sept,1932

note: the sole remaining Hawk, #32-261, is in the Airforce Museum painted as 32-240.


These aircraft seem worthy of tracking down and recovering if possible. But does anyone know of any other aircraft lost over Lake Erie?

Shay
_____________
Semper Fortis

What??? No one has any input? It's a big lake I would figure there are more than 2 military aircraft in it. Maybe not.

Shay
____________
Semper Fortis

I was talking to someone at a Canadian museum this week (I think it was the Museum of Canadian Aviation in Ottawa..but we visited several so I'm not sure.) He was talking about a WWII RCAF bird that went down in Lake Erie, but I can't remember the type.

SN

Actually, I would think the numbers in Lake Erie are probably rather limited.

Most of the Navy birds in Lake Michigan didn't crash, but were simply pushed off the decks of Sable & Wolverine. Remember that neither ship had elevators, so if an aircraft experienced even minor damage it was pushed over the side so that the training mission could continue. With that in mind, I find it amazing there are only 200 or so machines in Lake Michigan...a testament to the quality of the training program I suppose.

_________________
It was a good idea, it just didn't work.

living most of my life on erie, i did some research on lake erie crash birds. most are located on the canadian side of the lake. most notably & still unfound are a few grumman avengers which were in canadian naval ww 2 service, & a grumman widgeon. now...... lake ontario has a few mock up models of the avro arrow that were test fired by the rcaf to test aerodynamics of the type, but the models have never been found. i believe they were about 1/2 scale to the proportional size of the original. there have been a few attempts to find them, but with no luck. to bad, they are quite historical. with the advent of the zebra mussel mollusk which has infested all of the great lakes from european freighters, divers / researchers are finding more wrecks than they can handle!!! they are the size of a thumb nail, & amount to 30 thousand of the type per square foot on every bottom or object in the great lakes. each 1 filters 1 quart of water a day for food, hence the new found clarity of the waters. shay, there are some old threads re: this topic from about 2 to 3 years ago. do some digging, you may be enlightened.

_________________
tom d. friedman - hey!!! those fokkers were messerschmitts!! * without ammunition, the usaf would be just another flying club!!! * better to have piece of mind than piece of tail!!

Over here onthe Canadian side there are many a/c sitting in Lake Erie and many other lakes.
There were quite a few a/c lost by the RCAF over the years.
A close friend of mine has researched and recorded most of the locations.
Example P51 Seafire Harvard Bolingbrook Grumman Goblin and a 4 engine Bomber that at present we do not want to name.
My friend is not in the position to raise these a/c but would love a group to come along that is serious about some of these projects.

Fleet16b

_________________
...it was a plane adrift beneath the moon moving serenely thru beams like an angel of the night .....fair as a song ........aloof from mortal dreams

It would be sweet to get those Avengers and that helldiver out of there. Anyone know where the Helldiver went in?

_________________
Chris Henry
EAA Aviation Museum Director

I wonder what Gary Larkins or Robert Mester are up to these days? ..Goblin...Mmmmm..
www.shearwateraviationmuseum.ns.ca/images/goblins.jpg



.

_________________
He bowls overhand...He is the most interesting man in the world.
"In Peace Japan Breeds War", Eckstein, Harper and Bros., 3rd ed. 1943(1927, 1928,1942)
"Leave it to ol' Slim. I got ideas...and they're all vile, baby." South Dakota Slim
"Ahh..."The Deuce", 28,000 pounds of motherly love." quote from some Mojave Grunt
DBF

The Goblins are not a rumour but are actually there.
Two of them colided and went down quite close to each other.

IMO , a real cool looking a/c.
Are there any examples existing?

Fleet16b

_________________
...it was a plane adrift beneath the moon moving serenely thru beams like an angel of the night .....fair as a song ........aloof from mortal dreams

A guy keeps telling us that there is a Corsair in Lake Erie, that once he brings it up, he'll give it to MAPS.... hmmm

And then the NHC would pay MAPS a visit with a flatbed truck in tow.

Shay
____________
Semper Fortis

Any idea if this was an American (USN/USMC), Canadian (RCN), or British (RN) bird?

I know... We just kind of take it with a grain of salt. We wish but we know it will probably never be more than that.

If it was a foreign (Canadian or British) owned machine then whatever position NHC might take is a non-issue.

That may not necessarily be true. RR might know better, but if it was a foreign operated Corsair then NHC might look at it from a Lend-lease point of view and still demand it's return. But not all hope is lost, Lex has prooven that even the mightiest giant can be felled.

If foriegn and still has the pilot aboard. Then you can forget about recovering it. The UK and Canada(?) believe in leaving their war dead right where they are.

Shay
____________
Semper Fortis