CWH Questions

[Warbird Kid]

I have a few questions regarding the CWH.

1. Why hasn’t the Lysander flown yet? (Legal issues?)

2. What is the update with the Bolingbroke? (Sorry if this Yank messed up the name)

3. Even though the Spitfire they posses is not there's, is it possible for them to restore it and fly it?

4. Are they planning to obtain another Avenger to replace the one they lost in the fire?

5. Will they ever find another Hurricane to fly? Or do they even really need one with 2 flyable, 1 soon to be flyable, and another 1 to be flying eventually, right in the area?
[/quote]

[Steve T]

WK--

Stay tuned; will try to answer some of these after work...

S.

[Warbird Kid]

Haha.

At least your not as bad as me. I am at work!

[Steve T]

WK--

I'm baaaack...Giving these a shot in the order you asked them:

1. Lizzie. Not flown yet for two principal reasons, as I understand it: MoT paperwork issues (which is probably what you mean by "legal issues"), and the paucity of current Lysander pilots--the Lizzie has unique flying characteristics, not a type you can hop into right out of a Texan.

2. Boly. (You spelled it perfectly!) Moving along slow but sure with an all-volunteer crew. Plan is still, at last word, to build up the Boly as a IVW variant, which was powered with Pratt & Whitney Twin Wasp Juniors. First flight? Not soon...

3. Spit. It would probably be quite possible--even feasible--to return TE214 to airworthiness; but CAvM, who own the Spitfire, do not fly their aircraft, and certainly would not permit CWH to do so with the Spit lent to them.

4. TBM. Not sure why "ABG" was never replaced, but I surmise the hope was that when Forest Protection retired their TBMs in New Brunswick that they might donate one...however FPL is a business, so the Avengers are for sale, not for donation. Lots of other, restored, TBMs are on the market at any given time too. Time will tell whether CWH regains that impressive type in its fleet.

5. Hurricane. For now, the plastic Hurricane-shaped thingy seems to be adequate; from any but very close quarters it's pretty convincing, with its Lanc exhaust stacks and genuine (salvaged from the burnt-out C-GCWH) main gear assemblies. You never know what may happen, though, just as with the TBM...time will tell. BTW, your math on "local" Hurricanes has me slightly confused. The three flyers I get (Yagen/Russell/Potter); and one of the projects (also Potter) adds up...but where's this other project?? Colour me curious...

HTH

S.

Last edited by Steve T on Wed Jun 13, 2007 3:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[peter]

Steve will have to see where in canada the other flying hurrricane shows up

[Toddb]

What was the reason for selling the Corsair?
I heard that CWH felt it didn't represent enough Canadian history to out weight the cost of keeping it?
plus the sale of it injected a much needed cash flow.

is this true and/or is there more to share?

Todd

[Steve T]

Todd--

They were strapped for cash in 1998 when the Corsair was sold; the local newspaper at the time tried to downplay its rarity by comparing the number of surviving examples with stats for the Lanc, but they committed a real howler in one article, stating that there were "two thousand" extant Corsairs. (I wrote the editor and, among other points I made, stated in turn that if there were that many Corsairs left I'd own one myself...) One of the articles had quotes from Al Rubin (he of the Markham-based collection and the ex-Travolta Vampire), who was a member of CWH also, and who was quite upset about the sale of the Corsair. Old C-GCWX went to a very good home, though, and is now being rebuilt in one of the premier Warbird shops on the continent; and a Corsair has returned to this general area, too, VWoC having taken on an F4U-4 (which I hope to see soon)...

S.

[TimAPNY]

had heard (for what little that is worth) that the CWH was out of the fighter business. Thus no more Hurricanes, Corsairs or Spitfires.

Not too sure about what the deal with the TBMs are. but I'm sure they have their hands full with what they have flying and what is in the pipeline. I can't wait to see what they are working on get in the air. And I hope they are willing to start bring their stuff back to Geneseo, they are missed there and have a rich history with the HAG that should not be forgotten or over looked.

Tim

[JDK]

had heard (for what little that is worth) that the CWH was out of the fighter business. Thus no more Hurricanes, Corsairs or Spitfires.

Their Fairey Firefly, which is airworthy, is a 'fighter'. Maybe you are thinking single seaters - however the Firefly is flown solo (I believe) for displays.

1. Lizzie. Not flown yet for two principal reasons, as I understand it: MoT paperwork issues (which is probably what you mean by "legal issues"), and the paucity of current Lysander pilots--the Lizzie has unique flying characteristics, not a type you can hop into right out of a Texan.

Hi Steve,
I can provide a number of pilot's accounts and a couple of current contacts (I'm sure the CWH can do the latter themselves, of course) on the pilot issue.

For those that aren't as familiar with the Lysander, it's a completely unique type with slat operated flaps - the pilot controls them only by the angle of attack and airspeed. Also there's a fully moving tailplane for trim. Set it wrong on take-off or go-around and you'll crash - for certain. Not many people know that Harald Penrose, the original test pilot of the type in the 30s, was most reluctant to release it into service as it was - and a number of RAF crews were killed in the early days. It's not a dangerous aircraft as such, but there are some things which are very unusual, and if not allowed for are certainly fatal. It will also embarrass a pilot on the landing approach with a 'stair' descent if he doesn't get the speed right. Oh, and the Mercury engine requires a different management technique to American radials. As Steve says, it's not to be jumped into from the otherwise excellent trainer the Texan.

Regards,

[Greg87]

And I hope they are willing to start bring their stuff back to Geneseo, they are missed there and have a rich history with the HAG that should not be forgotten or over looked.

The museum is under new managements since last April, since then there have been enormous changes, including going to more airshows and as far as I can tell, keeping in better touch with the Warbird community. Every day things seem to change (for the better).

As for the fighter issue, I think just about everyone at the museum would love to see a Spitfire, Hurricaine, Corsair, P-51 etc etc, however the amount of time and money put into the current airworthy planes, as well as the restoration projects is enormous, also, it is possible to make money of the DC-3, B-25, PBY and Lanc because they seat several people that can buy rides, whereas the only chance the average Spit or Hurricaine can make money is at airshows. Just my 2 cents.

[Warbird Kid]

Thanks Steve T.

I was wondering what my favorite museum up North was up to!

By my count, I see a few Hurricanes around the area that can or will be flying.

2- Hurricanes with Vintage Wings of Canada
1- Hurricane with Russell Group
1- Hurricane with Fighter Factory
1- Hurricane with The Tiger Boys.........Apparently this is also a 1939 built example that is under long term restoration!


Imagine that? No less than 10 to 20 years ago, (and if im not mistaken) there was only the CWH’s Hurricane flying in the Northern Hemisphere.

Besides the above stated there is also……

1- Hurricane with Lone Star Flight Museum
1- Hurricane with Planes of Fame

Any others that anyone could think about? What about on the global scale?

Thanks,

Chris

[JDK]

Imagine that? No less than 10 to 20 years ago, (and if im not mistaken) there was only the CWH’s Hurricane flying in the Northern Hemisphere.

Hi Chris,
I think you mean North America? The BBMF have operated two Hurricanes for decades now, in the UK, and there's only ever been the one in the Southern Hemisphere, at Wanaka. Since the 80s, the numbers in private ownership have steadily crept up; which is a great thing, wherever they are or from.
Cheers,

[Warbird Kid]

JDK

Yeah sorry about that. Of course!

Its still early in the morning over here and my brain isnt quite working yet!

[JDK]

Try Mark V's list, 'published' on Flypast's forum.

LF363 - BBMF, RAF Coningsby, UK.
PZ865 - BBMF, RAF Coningsby, UK.
G-BKTH - Sea Hurricane - Shuttleworth Collection, Old Warden, UK.
G-HURR - Spitfire Ltd, Duxford, UK.
KZ321 - Michael Potter, Canada.
G-HURI - HAC, Duxford UK.
RCAF 5667 - Fighter Factory, Virginia Beach, Virginia, USA.
AE977 - Tom Friedkin, Chino Ca, USA.
P3351 - Alpine Fighter Collection, Wanaka, NZ.
Former Mk XII G-ORGI, Ed Russell, Niagra, Canada.
C-GGAJ - Michael Potter, Canada (grounded pending restoration)
G-HUPW, R4118 - Mk 1 - Peter Vacher, Didcot ,UK.
G-KAMM - Flying Heritage Collection, Seattle, USA.
NX96RW - Lone Star Flight Museum, Texas , USA.

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=20861

[JDK]

Its still early in the morning over here and my brain isnt quite working yet!

Don't worry. By accident, you got me wondering how many Hurricanes ever crossed the equator. The RAAF had one, here in Victoria (scrapped) there's the New Zealand example now, and I think there were a few in South Africa, and some may have gone south from N Africa, but I'm not sure - so it's always been rare down under!