Warbird Information Exchange

I just can't seem to get crosswind landings right. Did 5 yesterday. First one was pretty good. The rest were TERRIBLE. I guess I was trying to improve on the first landing and overthinking the process. I'm over-controlling ailerons and rudder. I'm seem to be OK dipping the up-wind wing into the wind but then when I start to correct direction with the rudder, I release the aileron. Or sometimes the other way around. Dip the wing and release the rudder. Then I'm trying to correct whichever one I released. And all this on final. Had to do a go-around on 1 attempt 'cause I was WAAYY too high. Should have probably done a forward slip to lose altitude but didn't think of it in time.

Went up to Martinsburg, WV to do some pattern work at a controlled airport. They land C-5's there so it's a HUUGGE runway. (There was no other traffic there so it was pretty easy.)

I have no problem talking to people on the radio, it's just knowing the proper terminology that's troublesome. The controller (at MRB) talked so fast it was hard to understand her. My instructor had to keep "interpreting" for me. Controller gave me one transmission that totally mystified me:
"Clear for options".
Had no idea what that meant. Do now, but at the time, I looked at my instructor and said, "HUH?".

My emergency procedures are going fine. My instructor will pull the throttle and I can go through them no problem. I can even get to a decent landing field with plenty of altitude. Yesterday he pulled the throttle while I was on downwind, midfield, at 1700'. I put it on the runway with no problem.

I'm sure we'll work on crosswind landings tomorrow. Crosswind take-offs don't bother me.

Mudge the frustrated

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Land of the free because of the brave

"Cleared for the option" is a phrase typically heard on airfields that handle a lot of military traffic. It means that you have the option of either making a low pass or landing. This is not a phrase you hear at a civilian airport. Frequently when practicing instrument approaches, a military aircraft will descend to decision height and continue at that height until reaching normal climbout location, then will begin a return to pattern altitude. This saves time and fuel over a touch-and-go or a full-stop landing.

Getting to know ATC lingo is something that comes with practice and exposure. I bought an air-band radio and listened to ATC a lot. Just listening to it keeps your ear tuned to the unusual phraseology and frequently rapid-fire delivery of some controllers.

Walt

At our airport option means you have the choice of a touch and go or full stop landing. Keep plugging, you'll get the x wind ok. Just don't bang the nose wheel or prop and keep as much or even more aileron in after you are down, don't relax too soon.

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Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK

Really? It's used very frequently at every towered airport I've been at. It's listed in the AIM:

4-3-22. Option Approach

The "Cleared for the Option" procedure will permit an instructor, flight examiner or pilot the option to make a touch-and-go, low approach, missed approach, stop-and-go, or full stop landing. This procedure can be very beneficial in a training situation in that neither the student pilot nor examinee would know what maneuver would be accomplished. The pilot should make a request for this procedure passing the final approach fix inbound on an instrument approach or entering downwind for a VFR traffic pattern. The advantages of this procedure as a training aid are that it enables an instructor or examiner to obtain the reaction of a trainee or examinee under changing conditions, the pilot would not have to discontinue an approach in the middle of the procedure due to student error or pilot proficiency requirements, and finally it allows more flexibility and economy in training programs. This procedure will only be used at those locations with an operational control tower and will be subject to ATC approval.

Chris

Thanks for the input re: "cleared for options". My instructor 'splained it to me.
My point was that I'd never heard it before because I've only flown around the Winchester, Va airport and it's uncontrolled.

Mudge the enlightened

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Land of the free because of the brave

Yeah, I had a LOT of fun the other day being "cleared for the option" at Lackland AFB with the L-2 and flying down the runway with one of the Doolittle Raider's grandson on board!
Also got that at Stinson.

Ryan

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Aerial Photographer with Red Wing Aerial Photography currently based at KRBD and tailwheel CFI.
Websites: Texas Tailwheel Flight Training, DoolittleRaid.com and Lbirds.com.

The horse is prepared against the day of battle: but safety is of the LORD. - Prov. 21:31 - Train, Practice, Trust.

Let me rephrase my response. I don't recall hearing the term at a civilian airport.

Walt

Mudge, I struggled with x-wind landings as well ( who the hell wants to land a plane at that angle?). I used to always lose my compensation once I got into the flare. I was actually quite intimidated/scared by them.

The way I was cured was by my instructor taking me to an airport with a really,really narrow runway ( I think it used to be a road!) where there was always a crosswind. We shot a couple of not bad landings but it was a bit of gusty day and as we got into the flare and a gust smacked us and pushed us off the runway right over top of the runway lights, the FI took control and aborted the landing.

When we got back to my regular airport it was no problem executing the x-wing landing on that nice wide blacktop. More importantly, my tentativeness was gone, it was just something I had to work out mentally on my own I guess. I don't think twice about them now, and they're fun to do with passengers. "We're gonna land like this?!"

You'll get it, just stick with it.

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Remembering those that served in Bomber Command!

www.bombercrew.com

Hey Mudge,

Instead of applying aileron and then rudder, try applying both simultaneously then follow with fine adjustments to get the proper bank angle and rudder input for the amount of crosswind. You're right about overthinking it. Visualize a line projecting from the end of the runway to the spinner and do what it takes to keep it there. Its much easier in a constant crosswind than a gusting wind where you have to constantly adjust.
Its good that your instructor is teaching you this method instead of crabbing all the way down final and then plunking it on. The method you
are learning will serve you well when you graduate to taildraggers. The last thing you want to do in a taildragger is touch down crooked.

Steve G

I use to use to side slip method pretty much for all crosswind landings. But it has disadvantages. First it is uncomfortable to fly in a slip, and it is uncoordinated so could lead to a stall. I now use a combination of both methods, with a crab when further out on final. This is no different than crabbing into the wind flying x crountry. Then near the runway, perhaps the last 100 feet, I straighten the nose and lower the upwind wing for touchdown. I have to be a little careful in the Spitfire as the ailerons are very effective and it is easy to overdo the wing down.

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Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK

Hey Mudge, if you ever have a question on ATC communications, let me know. I am an ATC. I should be able to help you out.

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Chris Henry
EAA Aviation Museum Manager

Another day, another lesson. It will come with practice. It doesn't feel right holding the wing down into the wind. Try making a low pass, not to land but to get the sight picture of what it takes to hold the center line. Ask Dan Linn about landing at Denton, Texas.. X/W capital for North Texas and Lancaster, the South Capital. Also, wait to you hear them say, I'm going to take you through final Even better, you see that they took you through final and said nothing.
Your ticket is your license to learn and you will

Lynn