Indonesian Warbirds (and Hi from Jakarta)

[Marc]

so they should have been operational

All Mustangs officially grounded in July 1975 after a series of crashes, two of the fatal crashes were Cavaliers. Details will be in Randy's book (free of charge advertising ).
The Bronco squadron commander mentioned above was also the last Mustang squadron commander and I've met him several times. War correspondent Hendro Subroto is also adamant that the Cavaliers were not used in East Timor.
It's still possible that they were used and that everybody denies this because the Cavaliers were delivered under a US programme, but the people I've met speak quite openly about the use of the AC-47s in East Timor during the invasion, and the modification of two C-47s into gunship was also carried out with US assistance.
What the excerpt you posted does not mention is that the Broncos were delivered without armament (some kind of PC decision at the time), and the Indonesians had to find other ways to use them in combat.

[aseanaero]

Hi Marc,

I don't doubt the OV-10s were delivered unarmed but the ones I saw last year had 4 50 cal MGs (not 30 cal) in 2 gun pods mounted on the side of the fuselage.

I cant argue on the East Timor issue but if I get anymore info I'll let you know.

I also heard about the AC47s being used , 'gut feeling' was the cavaliers were used also , a bit of controversy is a good thing right ?

[Holedigger]

It's a shame my old boss passed a couple years ago, as he flew one of the P-51's from the batch turned over when the Dutch left. I remember he had a pic of his 51 in his office.....wish I remembered it's serial or had made a copy of it, but that was 10 years ago and my memory sure isn't that sharp!

[Marc]

The Broncos had the Miniguns, but nothing to hang under the pylons. TNI-AU adapted Russian bombs. Later TNI-AU installed 50 cal instead of the Miniguns.
By the way, the Broncos are now officially grounded. Do you know where they are stored? Malang?
If you like controversy, you'll love all issues related to East Timor . Including after independence

[aseanaero]

By the way, the Broncos are now officially grounded. Do you know where they are stored? Malang?

Yes , stored in Malang , 9 remaining.



Where this photo was taken there was 5 of them within 100 yds , I was there for about 3 weeks

[Marc]

Thanks Tony.
Pity they don't fly anymore, love those Broncos. Trying not to be nosy, but what were you working on in the pic?
Did you see the various aircraft preserved at Malang?

Holedigger, if you don't mind, could you PM me the name of your former boss? Maybe I have a pic of him in my files.

[Holedigger]

Marc
PM Sent
Holedigger

[aseanaero]

Trying not to be nosy, but what were you working on in the pic?

Z check on a B737-230A , the aircraft had a nose gear collapse in Nov 2007 and had a slight bend in the fuselage which made it uneconomic to repair so we bought it for component salvage in Oct 2008 from the insurance company and then sold the remains to a scrap dealer but we still had to supervise the scrap guy. The 737 was parked on the military side of the base.

I got to know the guys at Malang quite well and I can tell you for a fact that most of the A-26 and B-25s that were there were scrapped.

2 A-26 survive as displays inside the base, there's an Albatross and of course the impaled Mustang at the base entrance. I counted 14 guns ? on the other A-26 , it's parked right near the security check point so I didn't take a photo.





Malang was an ex Japanese airbase and is surrounded by 8,000 to 10,000 ft mountains and the weather is really unpredictable which was one of the contributing factors to this 737 incident.

[Marc]

Thanks for posting these. I believe they also have (had?) a B-25 and an Avia 14 preserved there. The B-25 was near to some living quarters inside the base, and the Avia 14 was not too far from the Hercules apron south side, not too far from the Albatross actually.
From the Google Earth shots, I have the feeling the bomber near what could be a security check-point is a B-25. If it's a solid nose B-25J, it would have 12 nose guns, plus two in the tail.
The Mustang is a real tragedy. Did it still have these lights attached to the MG muzzles?

[aseanaero]

If it's a solid nose B-25J, it would have 12 nose guns, plus two in the tail.

Well the A-26 above was marked as a B-25 , I assumed they were both incorrect

The one near the gate is a B25 , you are correct , it had 8 guns in the nose , 4 on the side of the fuselage and 2 tail guns , so total 14 , positively frightening





Similar to this one at Satria Mandala Museum in Jakarta

Avia 14 is still there

Don't know about lights on the Mustang , they weren't working when I was there.



As you can see it's in bad shape , it looks worse in the flesh

Last edited by aseanaero on Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[aseanaero]

If you like controversy, you'll love all issues related to East Timor

A couple of years ago I was asked to find a buyer for 2 Alouette III helicopters , I was a bit curious why the log books started 7 years after they were built and did some digging and found out they were war prizes from East Timor. This raised the question if they were exported to say Europe there was a risk however slight that they could be claimed by the Portuguese government . When I informed the UK based buyer about this agreed that it wasn't worth proceeding any further.

[aseanaero]

Marc,

I had a chat with a retired air marshall today (2 star) and he also confirms the Cavalier mustangs not used due to US State Dept restrictions , when I said not even 'quietly' he said no but he said the A-26 and B-25Js did go in but sparsely used as they were worried about friendly fire incidents with all those guns blazing away

[A2C]

Marc,

I had a chat with a retired air marshall today (2 star) and he also confirms the Cavalier mustangs not used due to US State Dept restrictions , when I said not even 'quietly' he said no but he said the A-26 and B-25Js did go in but sparsely used as they were worried about friendly fire incidents with all those guns blazing away

Sounds like it was pretty bad. I think two Aussie journalists were killed there about 4-5 years ago.

[noizeedave]

[quote="aseanaero"]Here's some photos off airliners.net

SATRIA MANDALA MUSEUM (DOWNTOWN JAKARTA)



SO DOES NAYONE HAVE THE SERIAL ON THE B-25 I SEE IN THE BACK GROUND????

[Andy Marden]

SO DOES NAYONE HAVE THE SERIAL ON THE B-25 I SEE IN THE BACK GROUND????

It's M-458, ex 44-30399.
Andy Marden

WMOOS