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Classic Wings Magazine WWII Naval Aviation Research Pacific Luftwaffe Resource Center
When Hollywood Ruled The Skies - Volumes 1 through 4 by Bruce Oriss


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 6:54 pm 
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IndyJen,
On the pictures that you posted on the 12th....would you happen to know the serial numbers of the PV's?

Way cool on the cowl flap actuaters...I am going to start the restoration on mine soon. Gaylon, do you happen to have any more of the bearings laying around or have access to any more?

Great thread, keep it up! Thanks, Gary


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:39 pm 
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Gary, I'll find out from Gaylon the supplier and PN of those bearings for you.

Those pics of Aleutian Harpoons belong to PJ. Don't know what info may be on them or available for them, but if anybody's going to know the details, she will.

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 Post subject: Cowl flaps, etc.
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 9:16 pm 
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Location: Mesa, Arizona USA
Stunningly beautiful work, IndyJen. Your machinist knows his stuff, and it shows.

Years ago I had enquired with the former operators of our PV why the cowl flaps on all of his ships were perpetually open and upon further investigation not only left open on purpose, but the motor drive connections on the actuator assembly cut at the Cannon plug and tied off in a knot. And then taped with about 2' of black electricians tape! Someone was really making a statement here.. Ditto the oil cooler doors - purposely safety wired "open." In short, one couldn't cycle the doors if he or she wanted to.

Being the curious type I'd asked the obvious - "why?" I was told, "The Harpoon runs perpetually hot the way the engines are cowled around the Dash 31s and when we left the cowl flaps and cooler doors operable some darn fool always left them closed and we ruined more engines this way."

That was the answer to my question. And at the time, I suppose it made sense - the 'Poons were operated out of the southwest and in the southern states (at least where my guys did the bulk of their contractual work) and ergo really no need to have cowl flaps closed to keep an engine warm as they typically didn't "play around in the snow" like you folks.

Of course, this was the thinking when these airplanes were "working girls" - nothing more than dump trucks with wings back in the 1960s through 1980s.

I think the truer answer to my query was that most of the operators of the PVs they had flying for them - unless they were really familiar with systems and operations - simply FORGOT to open the cowl flaps when operating in warm areas and indeed baked their share of engines.

I'm really curious now to see the internal condition of our cowl flap actuators and see how they've survived so many decades in the WX wired to a single position... the damage to your bearings makes me think I can expect to see the same thing...

So, while slightly off topic, had your a/c been "hardwired" to the perpetually "open" position of cowl flaps and oil cooler doors, too? How about the blower position on the throttle quadrant? This was another "safety wired" position on our ship, too - the "high blower" setting for #1 and #2 was (is) wired shut with what looked like a piece of coat hanger wire.

When asked about this, our former owner and operator said "ain't no need for anyone flying a spray airplane to be slapping on a blower lever 'cause they don't know what the heck it is for anyway. The less they had to mess around with up there when we were trying to earn a buck the better for all of us."

Wish I could be there for your engine hang and start. Out here in the desert we're still pulling the lower spray hopper. This week we hauled 43 pounds of scrap iron, pumps, gearboxes and aluminum to the recycler from the lower BB section and are just now cutting out the old hopper. There's not much fun getting covered in 5606, Myrex granules, dust and the sludge of 30 years worth of use and abuse slopped about in the lower bomb doors - other than knowing once this stuff is gone the "real" work like yours will follow.

Carry on! :wink:


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 6:52 am 
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Pooner,

I've been with Hot Stuff for six years now, and we've always had our blower levers wired to the Low Blower position, too. Now we've got a new engine for the left side, and No. 2 is relatively low time, We've been discussing this thing some of late.

It's true, that there's no operational reason for us to need high blower. But it's also true that if the blower clutches never get exercised at all, they'll sludge up and become useless. There's a growing opinion that we may want to exercise them as part of normal routine. We'll see.

Our oil cooler shutters and cowl flaps have always been operational, and we use 'em. We haven't had indicators for the cooler shutters all this time, but I've acquired some that I intend to get OH'd and installed. The shutters themselves (inboard ones, anyhow) are visible from the cockpit, so that's how we've set them--generally wide open, but modulated according to indicated oil temp in flight.

Cowl flaps likewise--wide open on the ground, trail position in flight, modulated per indicated CHT. We do most of our flying in the hot months, and trail position in flight gives us good moderate CHTs. Wiring the things wide open would be draggy, in my opinion, and honestly, you just don't need them open that much except on the ground. I don't suppose over-cooling would be a problem unless you flew really high, which we don't do, but with fuel prices what they are, who needs even more drag with these planes?

You need to have cowl flaps wide open after landing/shutdown, until things have cooled off, but then it's a very good thing to be able to close them up, as our friends the birdies will climb right in there with their nest-building materials, given half a chance. And wide-open flaps is way more than half a chance.

This whole actuator rebuild started with an op-check in which, strangely, only one half of the flap ring moved. The motor on that side was humming, though, so what the heck? Took off the actuator cable, and the drive tang was completely gone. (Water will just get in there, and we take off the cables and lube these things as part of every annual, and still this problem arose. If yours have just been sitting there, cable removed, for a long while, I imagine you're going to probably find some bad things too.)

So, let's look at the other ones, and lookit how bad they look, too! So as long as we're at it, let's look at the cooler shutter motors ... One thing after another, and some were worse than others, but all of them needed some level of attention. Now we've got all good motors, cables, fittings, and all, as you can see in the photos.

In addition to Gaylon the machinist, our electrical man, Roy (former B-52 electrical shop chief) went through all our drive motors, and designed and built a test set for them, which lets us bench test and match the motor to the flaps when we install them--the sending unit for the indicators is internal to the motor,

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IndyJen

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 2:38 pm 
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Because I was speaking of Roy the electrical guru above, let's put a face with his name, why don't we ...

Image

Roy, like I mentioned, is a former B-52 electrician; he is a whiz. In addition to rebuilding all our electrical drive motors--we actually have good spares on the shelf now, which in our little world of shoestring/by-the-skin-of-your-teeth financial operations, is just a culture shock--he designed and built up a test set for the things which lets us op-check them, on or off the airplane, without using airplane power. The pic above is him running the flaps on the QEC engine prior to wheeling it out and hanging it on the wing. The test set is sitting there on top of the blower case.

Which, yes, indeed we did--that engine's not in the shop anymore. I'll have a post up later with pics of the engine install.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 8:14 pm 
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Well, WIXers, it's been a cold and snowy day here in central Indiana, a terrible day for working outside. Luckily for us, we got our outside work done yesterday! It was cold, but not bitterly cold, and light winds and sunshine helped make for a tolerable day as we hung our rebuilt engine on the wing, at last.

We opened the day by wrapping up our last remaining detail work. An item or two needed to be installed on the firewall--easier to work in that area when there's no great big engine in your way--and the starter and generator needed to be bolted to the accessory case. The overhauled starter arrived last Wednesday, and that's all we were waiting for. As soon as it came in, I put the word out, and we all had our fingers crossed, watching the weather. Because when doing an engine hang, we call in resources we don't always have access to, such as Sideshow Ted the heavy-equipment man. Once he commits, we're doing it, whether it's nice outside or not.

Image

There's a view of the whole shebang, hauled outside and waiting for the firewall crew to finish. They (Gaylon the machinist, PJ, and Johnny Gearpin) were putting in the oil cooler shutter actuator.

Image

There you see Gaylon working from the forward side, and the feet of PJ protruding from the gear well. She's in there putting the nuts on the attachment bolts. Some jobs just call for a tiny person, and for this sort of thing, PJ's frequently elected.

Image

When it's time to safety the damnably inaccessible motor-attachment bolts, nobody's better than ol' Johnny Gearpin. He's a fellow who's always in a good humor, even when the rest of the crew is standing around suggesting that he hurry up and get the lead out already, 'cause we don't have all day, you know ... (but in a humorous way, 'cause darned if I want to do those bolts!)

And with that, it's on to what we've all been waiting for, since months ago ...

Image

Here we are with the hoisting gear all attached to the engine. Having done this before, we know that getting that engine aligned just so is the key to getting the engine-mount bolts in place. It can be a damnable wrestling match. This time, we went with a three-point suspension (prop shaft and the two upper engine-mount legs), as shown in the book, but with a chain hoist on the prop shaft and another chain hoist on one gear leg. This gave us the ability to fine-tune the engine position in both pitch and roll. Still was a festival of frustration and difficulty, but really, far less so than in previous outings. I think this was a good way to do it.

Back to the camera is Hot Rod Steve, our rigger. He does that sort of thing for a living, and supplied the certified chains and hoists. He's wearing his brand-new carharts, which proved to be windproof both inside and out. A consumer report from ol' Steve: if, like him, you eat the burritos the night before, you've gotta make sure you have a good neck-seal. Because when you let go with the gaseous byproducts, it's got nowhere to come out but at the neck, and ... uh, eww. On the other hand, if you seal 'er up, you may end up inflating the suit like the Michelin Man.

Image

And here we go: the engine's in the air and off the maintenance stand, and there's nowhere to go from here but up ...

Image

Yep, keep it coming, slowly but surely. You've got to take your time here, because that engine assembly weighs in at a whole ton. Lots of mass and inertia there, and if you get in a hurry, something's liable to get broken, or worse, someone's liable to get hurt. We have never lost a finger yet, though!

Image

And now we're really getting close. Lots of fiddling with the hoists, and one instance of backing out and coming in again, because if the engine's alignment is even a degree or two off, those lugs will just refuse to line up. No amount of wrestling with it will do; those bolts and the holes they go in are close tolerance, and you've either got it dialed in, or you don't.

Image

Here's the perspective of one of the bolt installers, lower outboard lug. It's coming into alignment. Notice that Johnny Gearpin, there, is keeping his hands out of danger, and doesn't get himself underneath the engine. We've never dropped an engine, but you just never know. I worry myself sick over this stuff, and don't sleep very well the night before an engine hang. Somebody getting hurt would be the worst possible outcome.

Image

And here's the view from the other side. Oh, we're close, and when this was taken, three of the four forks were coming onto their mating lugs. But look at that outboard one--it will never go together like that. The engine's longitudinal alignment was pointed just the tiniest bit too much inboard, and it is weird, how that screws up the whole works. This is where we backed it out a few feet and came in again.

Image

And then first one bolt tapped through its hole, and then a second, and before you know it, all of them are at least partially in there. Once you've got that, you're golden. Three of the four bolts can, with patience, be tapped into place with a hammer and a big punch. The one under the exhaust pipe has too much stuff in the way for that, but enough threads can be exposed to get a nut started, and then you can draw it the rest of the way through.

Then you torque 'em down to book value (250 ft-lb) and pin 'em, and that is that. All that's left is to get your cold, tired, but happy crew up on the wing for the commemorative picture:

Image

We still have all the hooking-up to do, and the oil cooler has to be installed, and the prop. But the big heavy work is done, and that engine is sitting there right now, cowlings all installed, buttoned up and weather-tight. She looks so much better with engines on both sides!

We'll get the prop on next weekend, weather permitting, and I expect that we'll be running this engine within a month. That'll be a great day, you know it!

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IndyJen

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Lockheed PV-2 Harpoon of the
American Military Heritage Foundation
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 9:15 pm 
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Location: Heber, UT
Nicely done!! Looks great! :D Crew doesn't look bad either...want to see her run! Best of luck
Dave
PV-2 "AW"


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 10:28 pm 
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Location: Indy, IN
Hey we have an experienced cold weather R2800 engine change crew willing to travel for food. Of course warmer climates preferred..

Cheers!


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 10:41 pm 
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Location: Heber, UT
Thanks! I can see that...I got the engine change before the cold set in and have run the engine :D ...That being said I'll have to pre-heat the darn thing prior to anymore runs. Our little valley gets down to single digits at night. I'd like to take her down to AZ at the end of next month to do some training and get the Bomb-bay doors working....maybe I'll get the tunnel guns in by then :shock:
You guys/gals are welcome out here anytime! :wink:
Dave
PV-2"AW"


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:28 am 
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Maybe we should rig up engine crew pre-heaters. I guess budget restraints only allow for the Carhart/burrito pre-heat!
PJ
PV-2 Harpoon "Hot Stuff"
www.amhf.org


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:01 am 
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Hey Dave,

Thanks for the kind words, and glad to hear that you've got your own replacement engine installed and run. With Pooner also running engines, we'll have Harpoons darkening the skies soon enough!

What do you do for preheating? Cover the engine, and heater inside the "tent," or what?

I've been thinking about that, and that scheme is what I've come up with. That, and mebbe draining the oil and taking the oil inside the shop to warm up. Put the warm oil back into the tank just before time to start.

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IndyJen

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Lockheed PV-2 Harpoon of the
American Military Heritage Foundation
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:39 am 
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To the Hot Stuff crew....Well Done! Thanks for the detailed pics....I helped a little on Dave's Attu Warrior engine installation, and I appreciate how tricky an operation it is getting everything lined up just right...can cause some tense moments with all involved, and I agree that the "burrito effect" can be a blessing in the winter months, I personally would not recomend it during warmer climate engine changing...that could end up with a ladder being kicked out from under the offending party.
I might be driving thru the Mount Comfort area in a day or two...looking forward to seeing H.S. without the "Harpoon Tilt"

Gaqary


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:18 pm 
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She still was leaning when we left Saturday, but may have settled by now. We'll see on Wednesday. Snow predicted for tonight and tomorrow, so it will look like the Aleutians again.

PJ
PV-2 Harpoon "Hot Stuff"
www.amhf.org


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:59 pm 
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Thank-you for contributing to the WIX Warbird CEU program with great pictures and clear explanations for us non-A&P types with no wrench-turning abilities.
:wink:
Thanks for your hard work to "Keep 'Em Flying".
John


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:51 pm 
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Thanks for the feedback, John.

I don't want to be too long-winded or profligate with the pictures, but as long as people want to hear about it, I'll keep 'em coming ...

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IndyJen

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