Digging into the archives

[Jackdaw]

Thanks JDK, for spotting the error with the photo, I posted the shots far too late in the day for my brain to register such obvious details!!

There was another film that this mystery marked Buchon may have featured in. Released as 'Eagles Over London' or Battle Squadron /Battle Command (USA) (reissue title), the movie dates from the early seventies and was released in 1973. I will endeavour to locate some images to clarify.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0064571/

Jackdaw.

[PeterA]

Thanks JDK, for spotting the error with the photo, I posted the shots far too late in the day for my brain to register such obvious details!!

There was another film that this mystery marked Buchon may have featured in. Released as 'Eagles Over London' or Battle Squadron /Battle Command (USA) (reissue title), the movie dates from the early seventies and was released in 1973. I will endeavour to locate some images to clarify.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0064571/

Jackdaw.

Here are a couple of 'screen grab's of what may be the film.

Note those roundels.

PeterA

[Jackdaw]

That was quick Peter, I was just in the loft finding my copy of this truly appalling film.

The Buchon was painted to represent a RAF Hurricane of 303 sqd Polish(RF codes) in an Italian financed film shot on location in Spain, what a mix!!

Jackdaw.

[JDK]

Wow, thanks chaps. I thought that dodgy shot in From He11 to Victory was a ~hem~ long shot, but it must be from Eagles Over London, and clearly, going by the roundels and the nose camouflage demarcation, that Buchon at the VAM was one of those aircraft.

Excellent.

What a great thread!

[bdk]

...and clearly, going by the roundels and the nose camouflage demarcation, that Buchon at the VAM was one of those aircraft!

At least one wing and the cowling at any rate. I think a lot of those parts got mixed and matched by the time they were unpacked in the US.

Some of the ships had holes hacked int he side of the fuselage where the Spanish recovered the radios I understand. That last ship at VAM did not have a hole (or it had been repaired), so maybe it remained airworthy and was in fact used in that later film?

[PeterA]

The Mundelein Buchons were not the only BoB film aircraft disposals to later reveal 'inappropriate' markings.

Bill Francis, who worked on the film and was instrumental in the Mundelein Mk XIV Spitfires transaction, acquired a Spitfire project of his own at the end of the film. Mk XVI TB863 appeared at RAF Henlow in the build up in 1968 but was used only as a source of spares. It had come from a film studio, believed to be Pinewood.

In 1970 an investigation of the paint, to track the multi layers of unit codes, revealed a Swastika on the tail fin!



Logically, because of the film studio source, this was thought to hark back to some production in the 1950's as it was known that the aircrft was used in 'Reach for the sky'. In fact, in went back to RAF times when 17 Squadron provided the 'enemy' aircraft for an Amiens Jail re-enactment at a Farnborough RAF pageant in 1950.

Image : Charles E Brown.


TB863 is alive and well and flying at Temora, Australia.

PeterA

[JDK]

...and clearly, going by the roundels and the nose camouflage demarcation, that Buchon at the VAM was one of those aircraft!

At least one wing and the cowling at any rate. I think a lot of those parts got mixed and matched by the time they were unpacked in the US.

Coo - don't rain on my parade... Seriously though, good point. Was the weathering on the VAM aircraft more extreme on the other side? Can we pop back in time and get more pics?

Some of the ships had holes hacked int he side of the fuselage where the Spanish recovered the radios I understand. That last ship at VAM did not have a hole (or it had been repaired), so maybe it remained airworthy and was in fact used in that later film?

It would be interesting to try and find out if that was the case. Peter, Gary, do we have any idea of the serials of the Eagles over London film aircraft?

TB863 is indeed airworthy in Australia - in Bobby Gibbes' (Wing Commander Robert Henry Maxwell Gibbes, DSO, DFC) colours.



David Lowey, patron of the Temora Aviation Museum with TB863, 2007.

[garbs]

JDK wrote:

Was the weathering on the VAM aircraft more extreme on the other side? Can we pop back in time and get more pics?

All you needed to do was ask



Not a very clear view of the starboard wing upper surface, though. I'll look at the disc at home this weekend and see if any editing is possible. That surface is just visible in this A-26 shot - I'll enlarge that portion from the original scan also (it's kind of tedious in Photobucket):



Didn't check, but I thought I posted everything I had earlier in the thread. Here's one from in front just in case:




Regarding PeterA's "screen grabs", are those 3-bladed props? Would they actually have hung Spitfire props on them for a movie? Long way to go for very little improvement.


Seems a shame to keep cluttering this thread with unrelated CAF 1981 photos, so I'll start a new thread with the balance of those.

Good weekend to all!

[Steve Nelson]

Dumb question time. I have to admit, I don't know much about VAM. Where did that Buchon eventually end up?

SN

[bdk]

Regarding PeterA's "screen grabs", are those 3-bladed props? Would they actually have hung Spitfire props on them for a movie? Long way to go for very little improvement.

Could they be Heinkel props?

[garbs]

Steve Nelson wrote:

Dumb question time. I have to admit, I don't know much about VAM. Where did that Buchon eventually end up?

Please see bdk's post at the top of page 2. Not sure if that's the 'final answer' or if it was eventually rebuilt in one form or another.

[garbs]

Excuse me - JDK, not bdk. My CRS creeping in on me again...

[Jackdaw]

The identity of the individual airframes at the Victory Air Museum is quite tricky.

The museum is known to have had six Buchons.

cn no. 170 /C4K 107, (G-BOML) destroyed following a crash that tragically killed Mark Hanna.)

cn no.178 /C4K 121, (Under rebuild Geneseo USA! No current news.)

cn no. 201 /C4K 131, ( OO-MAF Belgium Possibly airworthy but not flown.)

cn no. 194 /C4K 134, ( Germany Static display)

cn no.195 /C4K 135, (Original D-FMBB now back in USA under rebuild, St Louis)

cn no. 235 /C4K 172 (N109GU/ Cavanaugh Flight Museum)

All of the above airframes were used at Tablada in both static and Taxiing scenes for the 'Battle of Britain' movie and some were used in 'Eagles Over London'. None of these flew in either film.

Somewhere I have a shot of cn no. 195/C4k 135 arriving in Germany for rebuild in the 70's. What we need now is some ids attached to photos of the Victory Air Museum aircraft. Unfortunately other than the well hidden data plate the only id on these aircraft was a painted constructors no. at the top of the instrument panel.

Regarding the three blade props, I believe these were spare DC 3 props fitted beneath new spinners for ground scenes only.

Jackdaw.

How do we know if the wings are on the same fuselage at VAM as when they were used in the films. Earl might have had a pile of wings and just mated them with any fuselage

Steve

[bdk]

How do we know if the wings are on the same fuselage at VAM as when they were used in the films. Earl might have had a pile of wings and just mated them with any fuselage

Earl didn't own any of these.

As I recall, that last Buchon at the VAM had a prop and spinner on it (1977-1979).

I missed my chance at buying the one John Lowe had in his garage in 1986. He wanted $60K for it...