USS Lexington

[Dnil]

I think you are missing the point a little though. The options, at least when I was there, were available to do the correct way. We were told no. The head paid guy who was in charge of us was fired and they brought in a guy who didnt really care for what we had to say. So we left. I just didnt want people to think that accuracy was thrown out the window by some of the volunteers.

[the330thbg]

Last edited by the330thbg on Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

[Nathan]

I think you are missing the point a little though. The options, at least when I was there, were available to do the correct way. We were told no. The head paid guy who was in charge of us was fired and they brought in a guy who didnt really care for what we had to say. So we left. I just didnt want people to think that accuracy was thrown out the window by some of the volunteers.

Since this is about paint schemes I just HAVE TO reply.


Dear Dnil,

Thank you for the effort in trying to do things corrently. Sadly for the collection on the LEX it apears a lost cause. Another chance to represent aircraft correctly down the drain. The Skywarrior is no more then play ground material IMHO. Too bad they couldn't have just kept the ORIGNAL paint on!

[the330thbg]

Similar to this one?

[CH2Tdriver]

DANG

....maybe they missed it by a tone or two. So what? Send them the correct paint chip or buy them the paint if it means that much to you...

Did you miss Dnil's comments where he stated that the volunteers wanted to paint it right? But were told how it was to be done by the people running the show? This is a problem in many volunteer organizations, and no amount of money sent, paint bought, or paint chips mailed will fix that! I stay out of the debate over paint when it comes to PRIVATE owners. You paid for it, restored it, and own it then paint it how you like. But a MUSEUM has an obligation to get it right, especially with aircraft that are owned by the Navy and in a sense us. If what Dnil says is true, then those in charge are failing at their duties.

How important is it for a museum to get it right? How about this case in point. One of the most popular exhibit at the NY Museum of Natural History for years is the dinosaur fossils. If you went to the museum 50 years ago and looked up at the T-Rex, you would see it standing on it's hind legs straight up 50 feet in the air like Godzilla. When you go today and look at the same T-Rex its different. He is hunched over and the head is looking straight at you, the tail straight back almost horizontal like. What happened? Well in the last 50 years paleontologists unearthed more research about how that T-Rex lived and realized that the way it was displayed was wrong and the interpretation needed to change.

The Natural History museum took the time and money to redo that fossil and pass on that information to the public. They didn't flame the paleontologists who pointed out the new info, or say "Just be happy the fossils are on display and not still buried". They didn't say no we like the way it looks like Godzilla, the public doesn't know the difference anyway and thinks it looks cool. No. So why for an aircraft museum should it be any different? What about in 100 years? Or 500 years for that matter if no one cares to document and get things right today? What if the NMUSAF ran low on cash and after restoring Memphis Belle, chinced on the paint job. Glossy Forrest Green over Primer Gray with pseudo artwork and 1947 insignia. Would that be acceptable? But hey just be happy it's on display and not scrapped at Mud Island. We would be there if people at NMUSAF, P'cola, of NASM didn't care to research for sure, and the public would be the ones at a loss. So if complaining might stir the pot a little so be it. (For MUSEUMS. Private owner its yours to do so as you wish)

I'm sorry. I'm not of the generation where everyone gets a trophy just for trying. You do a job right or not at all.

[WarbirdRadio]

Zane, I couldn't agree more. I do want to respond to the other comments directed at me. Quotes like "I bet the money is being funneled into the wrong hands" can't imply anything less than something dishonest. The other racist trash thrown about is not even worth bringing up again (now edited out by the mods). The museum staff and it's volunteers don't deserve being slandered for the selfish exploits of others.

Furthermore: The F-4 was rescued from a fire pit before being displayed. The SBD restoration is an ongoing project of a local college (the wing with all the dust on it is clearly a fake...even to the untrained eye) and the Skywarrior is sporting a historic paint scheme. Phrases like "lost cause" are highly out of line.

P.S. - Welcome back Nathan.

Matt Jolley

Last edited by WarbirdRadio on Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[67Cougar]

330th ... Lord, I hate to even mention this, out of fear for the wrath it will bring from all corners ...

The A-3 coming aboard pic you attached appears to be one of a handful of 'black' Skywarriors that operated during Vietnam. VAP-61 operated the RA-3Bs. The aircraft truly is black (FS17038 Gloss Black/Jet) , and carries very minimal markings. The clandestine night missions they flew have been shrouded in secrecy for a long time - I don't claim to know anything about the missions, but have seen color shots of the jets now and then over the years. I believe the time frame was the late '60s.

When the A-3 entered the inventory, the Navy was still painting their carrier aircraft a dark, overall glossy blue (sorry, I don't have the FS number handy). Early in the Skywarrior's production, the Navy adopted the grey over white scheme, so dark blue on the A-3 was limited to the pre-production and early production models.

I am sure you are all familiar with Howard Pardue's Bearcat? That's the shade of dark blue we're talking about. The A-3 on the Lex is clearly not that blue.

[the330thbg]

I'm sorry. I'm not of the generation where everyone gets a trophy just for trying. You do a job right or not at all.

BEEEEEE DONK

Hit the nail on the head with that one.

I am sure I shall be 'banned' for this but boy howdy.

and since when is a 'pinata' a racial slur?

[67Cougar]

If someone has a photo of the historic scheme the A-3 is supposed to represent, can you please post it? I am not being sarcastic. I've seen a lot of A-3 photos and references over the years, and haven't seen anything like it. If an aircraft like that did exist, it would be very interesting to see.

[the330thbg]

I am sure you are all familiar with Howard Pardue's Bearcat? That's the shade of dark blue we're talking about. The A-3 on the Lex is clearly not that blue.

Like these....
and here is the Beautiful A-3D as restored by the Navy Historical Foundation (perhaps a great resource for the LEXINGTON?)




Here is the full scoop.
http://www.navyhistory.org/2011/10/doug ... ort-pride/

and here is the "Lexington's" attempt


Come on.., really? Really?.., RUH REEEELY

I am amazed that of ALL places on the web a person can not say that this restoration paint job just SUKS!

I am fairly certain the people over here.., http://www.a3skywarrior.com/ would agree!!

Last edited by the330thbg on Fri Jan 13, 2012 2:31 pm, edited 5 times in total.

[Dnil]

The f-4 was in really bad shape when it was barged in. It was probably the worst of the bunch. I have been tearing apart my house looking for all the photos I took. Some really neat ones of a pack of planes on the barge coming up the bay then being craned on board. A bunch of what I think was a harpoon on the deck and trying to get some work done to help from the elements. I think that bird is in midland now. Not sure though. I had a great time working there and got to roam all over the ship. Now remember this was almost 20 years ago and I have no idea who is running the restorations now.

[oldman]

Plus.....
So much paint on that thing you can't even see the panel lines!

[67Cougar]

Dmil - those would be very interesting shots to see, if you can find them. Did all the aircraft come on tne barge from P'Cola (except for the WWII stuff) ?

[Dnil]

it was the very first batch of aircraft. I can't remember how many off the top of my head. We were excited kids that day though. We couldn't wait to see what we were getting and get to work on. The first thing I worked on was the nightingale. We put wings on that one then a donated cub. It might not have been a cub, it was the army version but I am not great with the L series on ID. Plus it was around the 92-94 time frame.

[67Cougar]

330th - that dark blue A-3 is very nice. The shade looks very good, the location and size of the markings looks accurate, the BuNo is a very early production version (backed up by the gun tail - which was deleted early in the production run). This looks like a very good representation of how that jet was delivered from Douglas to the Navy.