TIGHAR at it again

Bill Greenwood · **Posted:** Mon Dec 13, 2010 5:56 pm

Nathan, I can't say that TIGHAR is a scam in the sense that some charities or religious groups take money and spend 95% of it on admin expenses and houses for the sponsor. I don't know if any of the funds go into purely personal items for Gillespie. They may even be well intentioned. They do go out to remote areas and look for whatever is there. And a trip to Gardner is not really a vacation, it's not Fiji or Hawaii.

What I do know is that in about 23 years they have not found nor preserved ANY, NOT ONE historic aircraft. I enjoyed their piece on the Gardner Is. search, even if it is a bit dramatic. And their "discoveries", unlike some others in places of power, did not get anyone killed or maimed.

I grew up in the old South, where your deeds should exceed your words. There is an expression, "All hat and no cattle" , that fits pretty well.

I am glad that TIGHAR is looking and who knows, they might find something someday.

Jack Cook · **Posted:** Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:22 pm

Quote:

There is an expression, "All hat and no cattle" , that fits pretty well.

out here it's "alligator mouth and a hummingbird *ss" :shock:

tom d. friedman · **Posted:** Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:11 pm

Chris wrote:

An article on MSN.com states that a bone fragment found on Nikumaroro may be a finger bone from Amelia Earhart according to Ric Gillespie from TIGHAR :roll:

here is amelia's finger bone fragment..... :finga:

Dan Jones · **Posted:** Tue Dec 14, 2010 3:40 pm

Cubs wrote:

Nathan wrote:

I really can't see a group having a large interest in aviation history to be everything bad. I can't see anyone going through the trouble of researching something for years to be part of a scam. I can't see them originally starting out that way.

Nathan(the worried)

Nathan,
As the Brits would say, "you're a good ol' chap". But, I think you are making a couple of assumptions.
1. They don't have a large interest in aviation history. They have a large interest in making
money. (See my other post about what YOUR $50,000 can do.)
2.And it's not research. Why would any joe schmoh, off the street, be accepted as part of a serious research effort? Why? Because he has (had) $50K in his wallet.
3. As far as scams... they use sensationalist tactics to generate interest. 'we found a piece of aluminum with a rivet spacing the same as the Electra'. That same rivet pattern can probably be found on a hundred other aircraft. But, it generates intrigue. Never mind that
Gardner Island was inhabited throughout WWII by the US Navy operating a LORAN station.
No telling what kind of junk that generated during the war. Mind you this RESEARCH fact has never been mentioned by TIGHAR. (Too my knowledge). The shoe, the bones (that have since disappeared but, were examined by another doctor who said that... blah,blah,), eyewitnesses that can't be found, shoe, zipper pull. Zipper pull!!-- I got a big laugh with the Wix thread on that one.
Like Warbird1, I used to be a supporter of TIGHAR in it's early years. And I agree with Warbird1, corporate sponsors enjoy the advertising even if real evidence is not found.
It's the hype that bothers me, too. How much pre-publicity hype was produced before that
Corsair was raised from Lake Michigan recently? Little, if none. They just went and did it.
I've got more to say but, I think most of it has already been well said by others.

Paul

Not to nitpick or anything, but I seem to recall that Lockheed looked at that piece of aluminum and concluded that the rivet spacing didn't match anywhere on an Electra - including the areas that had been repaired after the Hawaii prang.

Dan

DoraNineFan · **Joined:** Fri Aug 12, 2005 3:37 pm **Posts:** 677

Nathan wrote:

In all seriousness, I really don't have anything to go on with Tighar. I only learned about them from WIX and everytime someone mentions them its been a bashing free for all(finding myself joking about it have no idea what we are talking about).

While I don't dought people scam other people. I really can't see a group having a large interest in aviation history to be everything bad. I can't see anyone going through the trouble of researching something for years to be part of a scam. I can't see them originally starting out that way.

Not disagreeing with anyone, just saying there are always two sides to a story. So far people are not showing a good light for WIX. Not only this thread but an ongoing problem for a year now.

Nathan(the worried)

To echo what has already been said. They market themselves (and are often identified as such in mainstream media print and TV) as leading authorities on aircraft wreck research and preservation. But in all of these years they have yet to recover and preserve a single example. There's a P-38 still sitting in the sand on the Welsh coast which they were quick to attach their name to and I believe have also obtained recovery permits just a few years ago. The Earhart story seems to cycle about every 3 to 5 years, and sometimes I wonder if it's only when the money is running out.

Fleet16b · **Posted:** Tue Dec 14, 2010 4:17 pm

The search for Amelia is also over on the Vintage Section.

My comments from that section:

It's always seems incredible to me that most of the Earhart hunters seem to ignore one thing. Amelia Earhart herself.
If you listen to the transcripts of her radio calls she tell you herself where she is - running a course back and forth , low on fuel , can't see any land in sight. To the Naval people monitoring her radio calls , they all agree that it was quite apparent that in the last calls her voice was quite shrill and panicked. SHE knew they were going to ditch. That was a given by all involved.
I doubt very much she landed on an island, an atoll or my personal favorite became a prisoner of the Japanese. Just the wishful thinking of adventurer/ treasure hunters I'm afraid.
Don't get me wrong , I think it would be fantastic if her and Noonan's remains were found or the a/c itself but it's a great big ocean out there and the odds are stacked that they are three miles deep in water.

SPANNERmkV · **Posted:** Tue Dec 14, 2010 5:09 pm

THAT WAS EXACTLY MY POINT positing the hypothesis of the Japanese firebombing the evidence of having shot her Electra down.
It kept the topic in the Warbird section.
:mrgreen:

sheesh... I gotta explain everything here.

For that matter it might well be Natalie Halloway's finger as Amelia's digit!

Ever helpful SPANNER

Mike · **Joined:** Tue May 04, 2004 8:54 am **Posts:** 3333

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... rhart.html

ZeamerB17 · **Posted:** Tue Dec 14, 2010 5:51 pm

Mike wrote:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/8200311/Bone-found-on-Pacific-island-could-belong-to-Amelia-Earhart.html

ZZZZZZZzzzzzzzz

warbird1 · **Joined:** Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:25 pm **Posts:** 2760

ZeamerB17 wrote:

Mike wrote:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/8200311/Bone-found-on-Pacific-island-could-belong-to-Amelia-Earhart.html

ZZZZZZZzzzzzzzz

ZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzz, is right! Anything to keep the cash cow producing the gravy train.

Wilson · **Posted:** Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:43 pm

I've always felt this hypothesis by Michael John Claringbould is the most plausible. I also think it would have made a much better movie screenplay, too.

http://www.pacificwrecks.com/aircraft/e ... alone.html

Bill Greenwood · **Posted:** Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:54 am

Wilson, that is an interesting piece.
I have never read anywhere before that the Itasca Captains or radio performance was suspect or that the facts were held out of an investigation.

I disagree with that writer though, in that it seems that he wants to shut off all inquirey into the Earhart matter except that which he believes.

Of course it is most likely that the plane went into the water, and dissappeared, but other things are not impossible.

Perhaps one day technology will be so advanced that it can find the remains of her plane if it is on the sea floor.

Django · **Posted:** Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:35 pm

I think their search for Amelia is fun. :lol:

What really annoys me is the P-38 that still rots in England. C'mon!! :twisted:

tankbarrell · **Posted:** Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:39 pm

Django wrote:

What really annoys me is the P-38 that still rots in England.

Wales, not England.....

warbird1 · **Joined:** Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:25 pm **Posts:** 2760

Django wrote:

I think their search for Amelia is fun. :lol:

What really annoys me is the P-38 that still rots in England. C'mon!! :twisted:

What really annoys me is that TIGHAR has exclusive rights to the TBD at Jaluit. From their website, the government has appointed TIGHAR “exclusive manager and agent in all matters relating to the recovery, conservation and exhibition of the deeper of the two Douglas TBD-1 aircraft in Jaluit lagoon. We delegate to TIGHAR full authority to manage the aircraft on our behalf and to work closely with the Historic Preservation Office to assure compliance with the Historic Preservation Laws of the Republic of the Marshall Islands.”

What this means is that NOTHING happens without going through and gaining full consent from TIGHAR. Given that not a single aircraft has ever been recovered from TIGHAR in their 25 year history, that's not a very good track record. It wouldn't surprise me if TIGHAR had no intention of recovering the TBD. Given their past performance, I think we can write off those 2 TBD's. I really wished that TIGHAR had not gotten involved with those aircraft. When I heard they got that "exclusive" agreement with the Marshall Islands government it really sank my hopes of ever seeing a real TBD in a museum someday.

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