Reading WWII Weekend!

Mon Jun 08, 2009 2:12 pm

Gottfried Dulias has been at our Wings Of The North Show for many years, He is always fun to talk to about his history.

Mon Jun 08, 2009 2:53 pm

It's disappointing to read this part of your post. Without people like Bob there wouldn't be a World War II weekend -- that goes from aircraft owners to half track owners, to the folks that reenact all aspects of the ground campaigns. Even more disappointing is your description of Bob as a "civvy warbird pilot who punched his ticket while practicing acro." That's an insult. I guess it's easy to throw rocks from a safe place. Bob's memory deserves better than a crack like that.

I was honored to lead it and even more proud to have my friend Chris on my wing as the missing man.

Jim Beasley

k5083 wrote:The missing man for Bob B. was nice, but I was surprised to see it. I would have expected many, especially at this venue, to view it as inappropriate to use what is traditionally a salute to all KIAs to honor one civvy warbird pilot who punched his ticket while practicing acro, however well liked he was. But I didn't mind personally, and didn't hear any complaints.

Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:03 pm

Mudge wrote:No comments about ribbons. As far as what's a "no-no" and what isn't, my reply would be, "It's a re-enactment. It's a bunch of people pretending to be something they're not." If it was to be "authentic", nobody could be over 5'6" and 150 lbs. There are guys my age walking around with all sorts of "pretend" uniforms. In 1940-'45 there weren't too many 60-65 year old Lieutenants or M/Sgts. There were few, if any, aircrew members that weighed over 150 lbs. You'll see 101st and 82nd Airborne re-enactors that are over 6' and 200 lbs. Sorry...didn't (or rarely) happen.

These "re-enactments" are no more factual than any WWII movie you'll see. Saving Private Ryan and Band of Brothers were very good WWII "re-enactments" but anyone who has studied either will tell you that Steven Ambrose, Max Collins, Tom Hanks, and Steven Spielberg played kinda' fast and loose with the facts.

If they can do it, so can I.

Please don't take this as a rant. It's really just something that I thought long and hard about before I jumped in.

Mudge the relaxed

No squawks from this direction at all... I was just curious if anyone approached you and had something negative to say about them, that's all. When I first wore this to Jerry Yagen's hangar dance event back in February, I was a little self-conscious, but the response was fantastic... much like you experienced at Reading, I had people taking photos of my wife and I, and posing with the aircraft in period garb was particularly enjoyable.

Keep on keepin' on, and if you know where I can pick up a vintage size 7 1/4 chocolate crusher cap for less than an arm and a leg, lemme know, would ya?

Cheers!

Lynn

Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:33 pm

Jim Beasley wrote:It's disappointing to read this part of your post. Without people like Bob there wouldn't be a World War II weekend -- that goes from aircraft owners to half track owners, to the folks that reenact all aspects of the ground campaigns. Even more disappointing is your description of Bob as a "civvy warbird pilot who punched his ticket while practicing acro." That's an insult. I guess it's easy to throw rocks from a safe place. Bob's memory deserves better than a crack like that.

I was honored to lead it and even more proud to have my friend Chris on my wing as the missing man.

Jim Beasley

Jim, I meant no insult, no crack, and sorry if you took it thus. I'm sure Bob was a great guy and I agree that his kind makes the warbird movement and great airshows possible. As I said, I thought the formation was nice and appropriate, I will even say touching, and had no problem with it. HOWEVER -- as great a guy as Bob was, and as much as he contributed, I was thinking about what the missing man formation means to some people, and speculated that they might prefer that it be reserved to honor the fallen in war. That's all.

August

Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:36 pm

Jim Beasley wrote:It's disappointing to read this part of your post. Without people like Bob there wouldn't be a World War II weekend -- that goes from aircraft owners to half track owners, to the folks that reenact all aspects of the ground campaigns. Even more disappointing is your description of Bob as a "civvy warbird pilot who punched his ticket while practicing acro." That's an insult. I guess it's easy to throw rocks from a safe place. Bob's memory deserves better than a crack like that.

I was honored to lead it and even more proud to have my friend Chris on my wing as the missing man.

Jim Beasley

k5083 wrote:The missing man for Bob B. was nice, but I was surprised to see it. I would have expected many, especially at this venue, to view it as inappropriate to use what is traditionally a salute to all KIAs to honor one civvy warbird pilot who punched his ticket while practicing acro, however well liked he was. But I didn't mind personally, and didn't hear any complaints.

Jim,

I was saying a prayer for Bob while up with Buzz during the Missing Man yesterday (in Bob's plane, as Buzz was telling me!). In retrospect, I think it means more to have been there during the Missing Man than it was to shoot your "beast". (Not that that wasn't awesome, mind you!) He is sorely missed, and was as if not more respectful of his "civvy" duty to honor those who fought and died during war than anyone I have ever met.

Rich

Last edited by richkolasa on Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:42 pm

Comment withdrawn! Obviously there is much in the mindset of those who honor those who fought and died, and those who honor those who honor those who fought and died, that I do not understand at all. A hundred apologies for any offense.

August

Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:52 pm

Speaking of Jim's "beast", he went above and beyond to give his time and effort [at the end of a hot and busy airshow weekend, and on his way home to boot!] to make these photos possible. Thanks again!

Rich

Mon Jun 08, 2009 4:01 pm

k5083 wrote:Comment withdrawn! Obviously there is much in the mindset of those who honor those who fought and died, and those who honor those who honor those who fought and died, that I do not understand at all. A hundred apologies for any offense.

August

August,

Our squadron also does missing man formations somewhat regularly - both for departed military personnel, AND for fallen aviators. It's pretty typical, at least in my limited experience, for aviators to honor their fallen friends in this way. It's also usually quite appreciated by their families, and is a way we can honor them in a special way.

Ryan

Mon Jun 08, 2009 4:07 pm

Thanks for the info Ryan. Obviously I was under the impression that the salute was more specific in its meaning than it is.

August

Mon Jun 08, 2009 4:28 pm

Mudge wrote:The air show is so much more enjoyable without a camera stuck to my face.

Mudge;
Sounds like you've crossed over to the dark side!
I discovered long ago that being a part of an event is much more enjoyable and worth while than just being an observer.
I still have my camera, but even though I've taken 100's of thousands of photos had a lot of them published over the years, most of my time is spent talking to the public and veterans who attend. Participation is incredibly satisfying.
Welcome to the other side!
Jerry

Mon Jun 08, 2009 4:39 pm

Not to beat a dead horse here, but to add to the missing man topic....
It is without a doubt that it one of the most proud things I've done in my short flying career would've been when I was honoring a fallen friend and aviator during a missing man formation.

I've seen missing man formations at many, many airshows now, and perhaps I'm just a wuss, but I typically get choked up every time I see it. It is a very poigniant manuever done for people you've met and people you haven't. But either way, it's an important part of aviation in my opinion. I can only hope that maybe when it comes time for me to pass, that someone can find four folks that are willing to do a missing man for me. It would be a huge honor to have that done on my behalf.

Gary

Mon Jun 08, 2009 4:53 pm

Gary...Believe me, you're not the only "wuss".

Mudge the wuss

Mon Jun 08, 2009 4:55 pm

Heck Gary I'd be proud to be one of the four to help you out............only got to live to about 139, but I'll be there!

Mon Jun 08, 2009 7:30 pm

A few shots on Saturday .... the best I could do shooting into the sun.

As far as the missing man controversy, I thought the T-6/SNJ missing man was dedicated to Bob Baranaskas and the end of show fighter missing man was the traditional memorial to our fallen military heroes. I thought both were appropriate. Bob was an extremely important part of the Northeast warbird scene and based on a few brief contacts I had with him, a real gentleman. Both were well done tributes.

Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:18 pm

retroaviation wrote:It would be a huge honor to have that done on my behalf.

Gary

You wanna hold off on that a few dozen years? What's yer hurry?