MARS

sandiego89 · **Joined:** Mon May 21, 2012 12:28 pm **Posts:** 1196

Just for funs sake (I am not saying it is a good idea!) for a theoretical delivery using the beaching gear set up for a one time flight to Pima.

Here are my thoughts:

- The Mars beaching gear is not designed for take offs/landing. They lack the strength, dampening, are of narrow track, and lack proper steering.
- The current beaching gear tires are decidedly low speed.
- Does the beaching gear have brakes?
- The beaching gear is capable of supporting the weight of the aircraft, and distributes the load to properly reinforced frames in the fuselage (not on the keel).

So all we need is beefed up beaching gear and a gentle delivery flight! easy, right? (sarcastic)

So here is my idea for a one time, one way, flight using the beaching gear/beaching gear attachment points:

- Modify or design and construct a set of beaching gear that would allow a one time ferry flight and land landing. Would look like the current Mars beaching gear, but would allow taxi to take off speed and landing, minimal shock damping and steering. Add brakes. Lockable tail wheel. Looks like the tail unit would require lots of work. Narrow track you warn? Well yes but the Shin Meiwa does well with only a @11 foot track. Just need a benefactor to fund the beaching gear mods.
- Fly the Mars to San Diego for a water landing adjacent NAS North Island. Haul it out at the North Island Sea Plane ramp. Would require Navy approval (ha!)
- Fit the one time ferry beaching gear. Fuel the aircraft for minimal fuel (plus reserve) for the Ferry flight to Tucson @325 miles.
- Runway takeoff from North Island to Tucson. Early morning, hope for no cross wind.
- Gentle 3 point landing at DM. Minimal braking roll out. Would it nose over on braking?

So COULD it happen? What else am I missing? Again folks this is just for fun, so don't call me stupid (or you can) just a fun though piece for theoretical sake.

Malo 1 · **Joined:** Tue Apr 28, 2020 3:45 pm **Posts:** 38

Just FOAM the runway at DM and have Pima haul it away. :roll:

mdwflyer · **Posted:** Mon Aug 16, 2021 12:06 pm

Interesting discussion, putting it down on pavement isn't going to get past any due diligence. The keel of the floats sit a good 12-15' off the ground when it's on the ramp, that would be one ugly destructive ground loop.

airnutz · **Posted:** Mon Aug 16, 2021 2:40 pm

With maintaining balance in mind, temporary outrigger skids could be mounted to the floats. The lack of strong support structure for the keel of the Mars has been a concern from the start. That's why the reason for some kind of "soft" initial contact surface is a concern. Some extant of acceptable damage is a given.

As for a runway landing, the North Island beaching gear scheme seems most plausible. On the beaching gear, some sort of inflatable bladder with a sacrificial rubber contact area could be contrived as a brake. Salvors use various sized heavy duty bladders when beaching or floating barges and other large watercraft.

It's too bad P'cola doesn't want her, but I've never been particularly enthused about their choice of Pensacola as their museum site. Their outside displays are only a hurricane away from disaster...tho that part of the Gulf is most protected.

As alluded to earlier, we're just spitballing here with other peoples money..

kalamazookid · **Posted:** Mon Aug 16, 2021 3:02 pm

We're overlooking a human element here:

How many base commanders or airport managers are going to want to be known as "the dumbass who let the flying boat land on concrete" if something goes wrong?

jamesintucson · **Joined:** Sat Jan 29, 2005 1:42 am **Posts:** 546

There is, quite rightly in my opinion, exactly a 0% chance of DM ever letting us do something that silly. Even if we were daft enough to ask. I appreciate you guys' high opinion of us, but there isn't a Mars in Pima's future. Start thinking about somewhere practical like the EAA in Oshkosh. Land it on the lake, there is a boat ramp at the end of a road that leads straight to the airport, pull it up into the parking lot at the ramp and take the wings off. Then tow the fuselage down the street to the field, over to the museum and put the wings back on. Expensive and time consuming, probably a quarter million and at least several weeks to move it the last couple of miles but much more likely to be doable.

airnutz · **Posted:** Mon Aug 16, 2021 10:24 pm

jamesintucson wrote:

There is, quite rightly in my opinion, exactly a 0% chance of DM ever letting us do something that silly. Even if we were daft enough to ask. I appreciate you guys' high opinion of us, but there isn't a Mars in Pima's future. Start thinking about somewhere practical like the EAA in Oshkosh. Land it on the lake, there is a boat ramp at the end of a road that leads straight to the airport, pull it up into the parking lot at the ramp and take the wings off. Then tow the fuselage down the street to the field, over to the museum and put the wings back on. Expensive and time consuming, probably a quarter million and at least several weeks to move it the last couple of miles but much more likely to be doable.

....or we could do that...not as fun, but a pragmatic sensible approach. Common sense rears it's ugly head again! :roll:

JohnB · **Posted:** Tue Aug 17, 2021 8:42 am

kalamazookid wrote:

We're overlooking a human element here:

How many base commanders or airport managers are going to want to be known as "the dumbass who let the flying boat land on concrete" if something goes wrong?

As someone who sat in on countless meetings/exercises/emergencies in command posts during my 20 year career on command staffs, I envisioned this response when I proposed this scheme.

Two things would have to happen to make this work:
-Permission from the Pentagon to give the base commander some career protection.
-And the idea of "It's not our airplane".

If worse comes to worse, at least the local area is well stocked with With scrap dealers.

And as I said in my first post, any talk of this is dependent on a structural analysis to make sure the hull doesn't fold up like a piece of origami, the owner's permission, and most importantly, a willing crew.

It comes down to trying to find an waterfront retirement home for the aircraft, setting up an aeronautical "Jurassic Park" in BC, a scheme like this, or scrapping them.

Airlift48 · **Joined:** Sat Oct 29, 2005 7:01 pm **Posts:** 741

We are now operational with the new C-54D and have been working on a fix for our C-97 woes. When it solidifies, we will announce it. We will need help. It wont be cheap.

KK

bdk · **Joined:** Sun May 02, 2004 1:16 am **Posts:** 11319

Weren't non-amphibious PBYs landed in grass?

Mark Sampson · **Joined:** Tue Jan 25, 2011 3:02 pm **Posts:** 300

I'd love to see a Mars, static or flying. But as a Tusconan, the idea of landing it on pavement, D-M or anywhere, is completely crazy.
As a parallel, why not ditch a C-97/B-377 in the Hudson next to the Intrepid museum, so they could just crane it aboard? To insure success, you could have Capt. Sullenberger as PIC for the final flight...

Hooligan2 · **Posted:** Tue Aug 17, 2021 2:39 pm

Captain Richard Ogg would be your man for that, though I imagine he is no longer with us!

Hooligan2 · **Posted:** Tue Aug 17, 2021 2:39 pm

Duplicated post

Hooligan2 · **Posted:** Tue Aug 17, 2021 2:39 pm

Duplicated post

airnutz · **Posted:** Tue Aug 17, 2021 2:41 pm

Mark Sampson wrote:

As a parallel, why not ditch a C-97/B-377 in the Hudson next to the Intrepid museum, so they could just crane it aboard?

Whole different engineering and stress analysis requirements...you might start off with something like a 3000 foot inflatable slip-n-slide for that.

Note to self: Remember to call FedEx in time to cancel shipment to Pima of 2 million cardboard boxes and cargo netting.

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