TBM down in Az? - May 2018

[steve dickey]

Now I bet them indians will look a little harder!! Land might be closed but that don't mean you can't fly over it!!

https://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/20000-Reward-For-Lost-Warbird-232141-1.html

And an article with some new info and pics of the two on the ground.

https://www.wmicentral.com/news/apache_county/a-tale-of-survival-and-the-search-for-a-lost/article_c249ee52-d03a-5c5f-8ca3-979d37feda32.html

[A68-1001]

search map and clues at the bottom of this page

https://tbmavenger.blogspot.com/2018/06 ... TvCA3-Pu1Q

[menards]

Asking out of curiosity....at a minimum there are lost Avenger bit out there somewhere in the desert. who owns them now? is it finders keepers? the insurance company? Salvage rights? how does that all work?

[Joe Scheil]

This is a privately owned aircraft and is still personal property registered to a private owner. If it had crashed on private land, the owner would be responsible to the landowner for recovery and restitution expenses to remove the aircraft, or he could perhaps abandon it in place due to a high cost of recovery, or environmental harm if the aircraft was attempted to be recovered.

if you find an aircraft or part of an aircraft it is your responsibility to determine the best course of action, however the most important thing is always going to be DOCUMENTATION first.

If the aircraft has come down on Federally Mandated Tribal Lands, the aircraft wreckage will probably belong to the tribe until the owner buys it back from them if they agree to a "sale". In no way is the aircraft in question abandoned.

A word on where tribes see themselves...

https://digitalcommons.law.ou.edu/cgi/v ... ntext=ailr

[steve dickey]

Another update, they may not like drones but that don't mean you cant fly over it! My buddy just bellied in his Bellanca and I had convinced him to take me up that way to look but now we cant

https://generalaviationnews.com/2019/09/17/a-treasure-awaits-in-the-white-mountains/?fbclid=IwAR1JmvdR9c550z0m8CX2yhL_wVEN0k8ezXoK8rAZyUS_MZZpvvq-yLX3yHE

[airnutz]

Mebbee ya'll can rent or borrow a search bird. 30k would go a ways to healing his Bellanca!

[marine air]

The Apache would want to have this man made debris removed from their sacred land and the crash site returned to its pristine natural state.

[Joe Scheil]

The Apache would want to have this man made debris removed from their sacred land and the crash site returned to its pristine natural state.

From the tribe...

“The lands of the Fort Apache Indian Reservation at issue in that article are only accessible by Tribally-issued permit on a seasonal basis. In particular, the Reservation area referenced in the news article regarding Ron Carlson’s aircraft is now closed to all access for the winter season,” the statement reads. “Anyone attempting to recover the plane by entering that restricted area of the Reservation will be treated as a trespasser and be subject to resulting fines and property seizure; such individuals will also be considered legally and financially responsible for any damage and emergencies created. The Tribe urges all readers to observe these restrictions. Further information is available at Tribal Game and Fish at (928) 338-1023,” the statement concludes."


Several ideas come to mind...

1. There are probably tribal members who know that land pretty darn well who could find the wreckage.

2. They would have nothing to lose by camouflaging and hiding the wreckage in situ as it is now "theirs".

3. The addition of a finders fee may have increased the tribal interest in the wreck to retroactively apply idea 1 and 2...and wait for more money.

[marine air]

Money talks. The Apache or someone else will find it sooner than later. One idea would be to hire one of those companies that specialize in super high resolution photo mapping to cover the most likely areas. They ,ay already have that information as they might have done work for the mining companies, etc. Of course, the work would’ve had to be done post crash.

[Thomas_Mac]

He would be better off looking to purchase another TBM than spend all that money searching for this aircraft.

Has it been stated anywhere they would intend to restore the TBM? My understanding was that they wanted closure on where it ended up.

[A68-1001]

Video after the bail out
https://youtu.be/j3sM7J4wDWc

[Fearless Tower]

The Apache would want to have this man made debris removed from their sacred land and the crash site returned to its pristine natural state.

You obviously haven't had any dealings with the Indian tribes in Arizona.

IF they find that airplane on the reservation, then it will most likely remain there. The tribes, historically, would rather their land not be disturbed than accept money in exchange. And, as much as I'd like to see some of the aircraft known to be on tribal land recovered and restored, I have to admit it is their right if they don't want to deal.

[michaelharadon]

From today's Arizona Republic.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/lo ... 969588002/

[C VEICH]

From today's Arizona Republic.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/lo ... 969588002/

Here is the TBM owner's response to the tribe's accusations: https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/lo ... 2715292002

[Iclo]

I'm not familliar at all with the Indian tribe question, but do they really have the right to prevent the owner of a downed plane to search and retrieve his plane ?