Warbird Information Exchange

DISCLAIMER: The views expressed on this site are the responsibility of the poster and do not reflect the views of the management.
It is currently Fri Jun 20, 2025 1:18 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Classic Wings Magazine WWII Naval Aviation Research Pacific Luftwaffe Resource Center
When Hollywood Ruled The Skies - Volumes 1 through 4 by Bruce Oriss


Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 53 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 8:45 am 
Offline
2000+ Post Club
2000+ Post Club

Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:27 am
Posts: 2463
Location: Ellerslie Georgia, USA
The Inspector wrote:
gary1954 wrote:
Post War, a need to read is a book entitled "The Day We Bombed Utah...America's Worst Kept Secret" in one month the were 28 above ground nuclear bomb tests.
the activity of the government during this period actually caused Howard R. Hughes to blow a head-gasket and move from Vegas to the Bahamas Islands, and that too, is another story.

Yeah, but wasn't Howard buying up Vegas to sell as beach front property after 'the BIG ONE' in California??


Yeah, he was in fact buying up as many casino's as possible, but that had nothing, N o t h i n g to do with the Twenty-Eight Nuclear Bombs that the Government detonated in O n e month.

_________________
Kind Regards,
Gary Lewis
J.A.F.O.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 7:13 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 7:01 pm
Posts: 64
fnqvmuch wrote:
coincidently found this a few clicks later, via unrelated browsing:
http://www.amazon.com/ATOMIC-COVER-UP-S ... B005CKK9IG
and it is as a part of WWII in the Pacific, a subject i have an unhealthy fascination with;
(got the Manhattan Engineer District photo album N-13910.2-A and B,
the Naval Technical Mission report N-139101 (medical effects) etc., etc.).
I would like to be able to see both sides of what can inevitably be an argument
and I'm absolutely aware of 'our' enemy that would persist even as they starved to death

but I can't help questioning again after seeing here recently, thanks to Mark, what was being
brought to bear on the Home Islands - all that ordnance in all those B-29s on Iwo, for one thing;
weren't 'conventional' strategies enough to bomb 'them' into the Stone Age or beyond?
Tokyo burned easier than Dresden, didn't it?


and now this;

http://lareviewofbooks.org/review/hiros ... militarism

(imho Paul Ham - well, at least his Kokoda - is excellent, btw)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 11:13 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:44 pm
Posts: 151
Image

_________________
Keep your PDI centered!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 3:05 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 11, 2004 5:42 pm
Posts: 6884
Location: The Goldfields, Victoria, Australia
fnqvmuch wrote:
and now this;

http://lareviewofbooks.org/review/hiros ... militarism

(imho Paul Ham - well, at least his Kokoda - is excellent, btw)

Thanks for that!

Interesting review, some good content.

But. He falls to the same issues he accuses Ham of in that he skips the Fascist German bombing of Rotterdam and London in 1940, in his case to get his knife quicker into Harris et al, and avoid any 'who started it' argument. You can't mention the theory by Mitchell and Douhet and skip to Harris and LeMay without the actual attacks on Guernica, Chinese cities (by the Japanese) Rotterdam, London, Coventry etc. And accusing Harris of deploying a 'fascist theory of warfare' is using an emotive term - either unwise (at best) or as a cheap shot hot button at worst. Harris was operating in a democracy, and should/could have been sacked.

His good points, over the reality of the effect of the bombs on the peace processes, and the appalling emasculation of the independence of the Smithsonian with the Enola Gay debacle is utterly compromised by towering bias on other areas, encouraging the skeptical reader to chuck it all out, or where I am which is to wonder if he's been selective biased here, what about the rest?

Franklin also fails the simple test of being seen to use emotive adjectives to direct sympathy rather than laying out the argument (pro and contra) coldly and let the evidence speak.

Good thinking stuff, but won't play on peer review.

Regards,

_________________
James K

"Switch on the underwater landing lights"
Emilio Largo, Thunderball.

www.VintageAeroWriter.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 8:02 am 
Offline
1000+ Posts!
1000+ Posts!

Joined: Mon May 21, 2012 12:28 pm
Posts: 1199
Quote:
fnqvmuch wrote:

and now this;

http://lareviewofbooks.org/review/hiros ... militarism

(imho Paul Ham - well, at least his Kokoda - is excellent, btw)

Thanks for that!

Interesting review, some good content.

But. He falls to the same issues he accuses Ham of in that he skips the Fascist German bombing of Rotterdam and London in 1940, in his case to get his knife quicker into Harris et al, and avoid any 'who started it' argument. You can't mention the theory by Mitchell and Douhet and skip to Harris and LeMay without the actual attacks on Guernica, Chinese cities (by the Japanese) Rotterdam, London, Coventry etc. And accusing Harris of deploying a 'fascist theory of warfare' is using an emotive term - either unwise (at best) or as a cheap shot hot button at worst. Harris was operating in a democracy, and should/could have been sacked.

His good points, over the reality of the effect of the bombs on the peace processes, and the appalling emasculation of the independence of the Smithsonian with the Enola Gay debacle is utterly compromised by towering bias on other areas, encouraging the skeptical reader to chuck it all out, or where I am which is to wonder if he's been selective biased here, what about the rest?

Franklin also fails the simple test of being seen to use emotive adjectives to direct sympathy rather than laying out the argument (pro and contra) coldly and let the evidence speak.

Good thinking stuff, but won't play on peer review.

Regards,


Agree with JDK, I read the Franklin review of the Ham book, and the two seem be in the same lot that the war was already won and the bombing of civilians was unjustified. While undoubtedly horriffic most of the other accounts I have read of the final months of the war conclude that the only way to destroy Japan's abilty to wage war made it neccessary to target the factories and the the pool. Guess where they lived?

I find the topic very interesting, but think I will skip this book.

I also think the major conclusion that in post war “Everyone involved expected, indeed hoped, to use the bomb" is an overstretch. Yes there were a few folks that advocated their use, but as none were used it must be that cooler heads prevalied- obviusly not "everyone"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 10:11 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 11, 2004 5:42 pm
Posts: 6884
Location: The Goldfields, Victoria, Australia
sandiego89 wrote:
Agree with JDK, I read the Franklin review of the Ham book, and the two seem be in the same lot ...

Just to be clear, I don't think Ham is in any way on the same page as Franklin. As is often the way, Franklin is using his 'review' to present is own case, rather than critiquing the book - I'd leave comment on the book to a better evaluation.

Regards,

_________________
James K

"Switch on the underwater landing lights"
Emilio Largo, Thunderball.

www.VintageAeroWriter.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 10:53 am 
Offline
1000+ Posts!
1000+ Posts!

Joined: Mon May 21, 2012 12:28 pm
Posts: 1199
Quote:
I don't think Ham is in any way on the same page as Franklin


Thanks for the clarification, understood. Franklin does seem to have a strong opinion on things in his review.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 4:50 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 7:01 pm
Posts: 64
Thank you James, will keep that all in mind as i read on ...
I had noted that Barcelona was mentioned and wondered why not Guernica, and now you mention it;
weren't the first raids in WWII questionable british ones, somewhere scando-baltic?
Need to check that - think i read it in Human Smoke by Nicholson Baker
which, as - laying out the argument (pro and contra) coldly and - letting - the evidence speak - is surely the best example.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 53 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 257 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group