Lone Star FlightMuseum were planes scrapped after hurricane?

[Dan K]

Can't forget the NMUSAF-owned F-84E that was scrapped 2-3 years ago...formerly displayed at Gateway Tech in Kenosha, WI. Stay vigilant, WIXers.

Yes, you are right the NMUSAF scraps airplanes every day.

No, I don't believe the NMUSAF scraps airplanes every day. But I do believe that the NMUSAF disposes of (or allows other agencies to dispose of) certain historical aircraft under its stewardship that many of us would consider worthy of continued preservation.

I may be entirely off-base, but in the case of the Gateway F-84 it would appear that the authorities at Gateway made little (if any) attempt to locate an aviation, veterans, or historical organization in the area (and there are several) for safekeeping. As frustrating as Gateway's apparent attitude may have been, ultimate responsibility lies with the NMUSAF and its authority to offer scrapping of the airframe as an option for its disposal.

As long as the policy of scrapping historical aircraft remains an option for 2nd-party stewards of NMUSAF property, I encouraged vigilance on the part of WIXers--simply to not assume that aircraft placarded as under the ownership of the NMUSAF are immune to permanent disposal.

[mustangdriver]

Dan I know, but what were Dayton's choices?

1) Spend the money to move an airframe of unknown condition back to Dayton to be placed in storage as the NMUSAF already has multiple examples of F-84's on display.

2)part it out and scrap it. Saves the museum money that they can spend on other items, like building a facility large enough to house more examples that are more rare, and historical.

3)Sell it to a private owner. And that maybe is what should have happened. But with aircraft like the jets, even if they sell them off, how many folks are going to be able to really operate it? How many F-84's and F-105's are really going to be bought by private owners and flown? I am thinking single digits. And there is no telling that THIS particular F-84 would be a candidate for that.

If the LSFM, NMNA, or NMSUAF scrap something, chances are that was their last option. That is why we are fighting to try and save the outdoor aircraft.

[Pogo]

The Hurricane and Spitfire are still at their respective restoration facilities. And FYI,there were some local spam cans crushed after the storm damage and if a/c parts went into the square file, IMHO they were most likely corroded beyond any use.

How ya' been lately, Pogo?

Howdy Doug! Flat on my belly here, trying to keep out of the crossfire. As Willie might say to Joe, "I'd get lower, but me buttons are in the way." I'm mostly hanging out at the Pioneer Flight Museum these days, where my "vast woodworking expertise" makes me much more useful than I ever was in a WWII warbirds hangar. It's a great fit, and besides, life became meaningless without my beloved F3F.....

Incidentally, I wonder how many members of the general audience truly understand what happens to airplane stuff when you soak it in salt water? It's truly amazing. Unreal, in fact. Wow, not good.

[tulsaboy]

mustangdriver-

Obviously we're getting a little far afield from the original topic, but I think the question you posed is a worthwhile question for us to discuss. I fall in that last category- I think that if there are aircraft like the F-84 in question that have lost the support/desire of their original sponsors, and if NMUSAF doesn't want to pay to transport it back, then yes, I think NMUSAF should offer it up for sale. I think the pool of folks interested might be larger than you think. In the case of our museum here in Tulsa, the board regularly is asked to consider getting aircraft on loan from NMUSAF. One of the questions that is always posed is why should we spend the 50-100k to move an aircraft that isn't ours, spend tons of resources to spruce it up and maintain it, with the concern that NMUSAF could always recall it or divert it elsewhere. I think if there was a reasonable program that allowed private concerns, especially museums, to buy the aircraft outright, there would be quite a few takers. A simple private auction might even have merit. Allowing the market to determine what such an aircraft is worth would take the hassle of negotiation out of the process. Why couldn't NMUSAF publish notice on their website, and give interested museums a couple of weeks to submit a sealed bid in writing. Highest bid gets clear title to the aircraft, no questions asked, with a deadline to remove the aircraft in question. If they can't get it done, next highest bidder gets the next shot. It would eliminate the oversight hassle from NMUSAF, wouldn't cost the museum hardly any resources, and would result in a small infusion of cash that could be diverted to the uses you described. Is such a thought at least reasonable?

kevin

[mustangdriver]

Actually That is a really good idea, and working at Grissom I know what you mean. There is no bigger fear that we are going to lose an aircraft or two. There is more into that than I can go into on here, but I think you have a great idea.

[Jack Cook]

Both of those statements are jokes right?

speaking only for myself I'm just trying to help in my own special way.

[mustangdriver]

HAHA Thanks Jack.

[muddyboots]

Jack is indeed speshull...

[mustangdriver]

Yes he is. A great dude to have around

[Fouga23]

In case of the F-84, I seem to remember there is asbestos in the airframe. There certainly is in the RF-84. A good reason to NOT sell it to private owners. It's a liability isue.

[JohnB]

Mustang Driver, I can't disagree with you that the NMUSAF has to make tough decisions...
BUT in the first decade of the 21st Century, NO aircraft as rare as a straight-wing F-84 or B-47 should be scrapped by ANY reputable museum.
Period.
How many straight-wing 84s are out there? 15-20? We're not talking T-33 or even F-84Fs here.

Another recent decision they should account for is sole surviving F-89A...one of two gun-nose survivors...(again 25 or so F-89 survivors) that was taken off display at Lackland.
It was given to a local museum at Stinson Field in San Antonio without its unique nose.
Why? What good is a nose without an airplane? I didn't see the nose in a place of hnor at the NMUSAF...not even as a coat rack in the cafeteria.
And more to the point, how can the museum display the aircraft without a nose?
I'd say that plane is as good as scrapped.

It sounds like they need more "buffs" and fewer bureaucrats in the front office.

[Dan K]

Mustang Driver, I can't disagree with you that the NMUSAF has to make tough decisions...
BUT in the first decade of the 21st Century, NO aircraft as rare as a straight-wing F-84 or B-47 should be scrapped by ANY reputable museum.
Period.
How many straight-wing 84s are out there? 15-20? We're not talking T-33 or even F-84Fs here...

John, before your blood pressure pegs, the former F-84 at Gateway Tech was a sweptwing. Please accept my apologies for the erring keystroke. It has been corrected on the original post.

[Canso42]

An unknown warbirder whom I like to quote once said,.."we do the best we can with what we've got for as long as we can." IMHO, ANY vintage aircraft that people like us save is a victory.
Stay vigilant WIXers.