TIGHAR at it again

Dan Jones · **Posted:** Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:56 am

PERFECT!!!

Mudge · **Posted:** Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:30 pm

OK...If this organization is so widely known to be a scam operation, (and/or unable to show any positive results of their "quests") how come they keep getting money from the PT Barnum adherents. Don't these investors do any research. If they were considering investing in stocks, wouldn't they normally do research? Appears to me that these "investors" are either intellectually challenged or TIGHAR is really slick. Could it be that their "scam" not as widely known as it should be.

Mudge the amazed

The Inspector · **Posted:** Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:38 pm

On a larger scale, it's what keeps Las Vegas and Atlantic City going-

warbird1 · **Joined:** Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:25 pm **Posts:** 2760

Mudge wrote:

OK...If this organization is so widely known to be a scam operation, (and/or unable to show any positive results of their "quests") how come they keep getting money from the PT Barnum adherents. Don't these investors do any research. If they were considering investing in stocks, wouldn't they normally do research? Appears to me that these "investors" are either intellectually challenged or TIGHAR is really slick. Could it be that their "scam" not as widely known as it should be.

Mudge the amazed

You know some people just have a magnetic charisma, are extremely slick, and know all the right things to say. Gillespie is one such person. Because he has been on television so much and has high visibility, investors assume that he knows what he is doing and talking about. I'll tell you what, if I were in charge of fund-raising for a political party, I would hire Gillespie instantly, because he could get a dollar off of a homeless person - guaranteed!

Also, as you know, sometimes corporate sponsorship is worth the money just for the advertising - regardless of whether the operation is successful or not. Some companies/organizations/individuals probably don't care whether TIGHAR finds Amelia - as long as they are still in the news and thus presumably still generating publicity for their own agendas/advertising.

Mudge · **Posted:** Mon Dec 13, 2010 2:17 pm

warbird1 wrote:

Mudge wrote:

OK...If this organization is so widely known to be a scam operation, (and/or unable to show any positive results of their "quests") how come they keep getting money from the PT Barnum adherents. Don't these investors do any research. If they were considering investing in stocks, wouldn't they normally do research? Appears to me that these "investors" are either intellectually challenged or TIGHAR is really slick. Could it be that their "scam" not as widely known as it should be.

Mudge the amazed

You know some people just have a magnetic charisma, are extremely slick, and know all the right things to say. Gillespie is one such person. Because he has been on television so much and has high visibility, investors assume that he knows what he is doing and talking about. I'll tell you what, if I were in charge of fund-raising for a political party, I would hire Gillespie instantly, because he could get a dollar off of a homeless person - guaranteed!

Also, as you know, sometimes corporate sponsorship is worth the money just for the advertising - regardless of whether the operation is successful or not. Some companies/organizations/individuals probably don't care whether TIGHAR finds Amelia - as long as they are still in the news and thus presumably still generating publicity for their own agendas/advertising.

Yes, I'm aware of this characteristic. Mrs. Mudge says I are one. :wink:

Musge the magnetic

Nathan · **Posted:** Mon Dec 13, 2010 2:34 pm

In all seriousness, I really don't have anything to go on with Tighar. I only learned about them from WIX and everytime someone mentions them its been a bashing free for all(finding myself joking about it have no idea what we are talking about).

While I don't dought people scam other people. I really can't see a group having a large interest in aviation history to be everything bad. I can't see anyone going through the trouble of researching something for years to be part of a scam. I can't see them originally starting out that way.

Not disagreeing with anyone, just saying there are always two sides to a story. So far people are not showing a good light for WIX. Not only this thread but an ongoing problem for a year now.

Nathan(the worried)

Mudge · **Posted:** Mon Dec 13, 2010 2:39 pm

Nathan wrote:

In all seriousness, I really don't have anything to go on with Tighar. I only learned about them from WIX and everytime someone mentions them its been a bashing free for all.

While I don't dought people scam other people. I really can't see a group having a large interest in aviation history to be everything bad. I can't see anyone going through the trouble of researching something for years to be part of a scam. I can't see them originally starting out that way.

Not disagreeing with anyone, just saying there are always two sides to a story. So far people are not showing a good light for WIX. Not only this thread but an ongoing problem for a year now.

Nathan(the worried)

Nathan...not sure I understand your point.

Mudge the dense

Nathan · **Posted:** Mon Dec 13, 2010 2:42 pm

Mudge wrote:

Nathan wrote:

In all seriousness, I really don't have anything to go on with Tighar. I only learned about them from WIX and everytime someone mentions them its been a bashing free for all.

While I don't dought people scam other people. I really can't see a group having a large interest in aviation history to be everything bad. I can't see anyone going through the trouble of researching something for years to be part of a scam. I can't see them originally starting out that way.

Not disagreeing with anyone, just saying there are always two sides to a story. So far people are not showing a good light for WIX. Not only this thread but an ongoing problem for a year now.

Nathan(the worried)

Nathan...not sure I understand your point.

Mudge the dense

Hi mudge,

Pm sent.

warbird1 · **Joined:** Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:25 pm **Posts:** 2760

Nathan wrote:

In all seriousness, I really don't have anything to go on with Tighar. I only learned about them from WIX and everytime someone mentions them its been a bashing free for all(finding myself joking about it have no idea what we are talking about).

While I don't dought people scam other people. I really can't see a group having a large interest in aviation history to be everything bad. I can't see anyone going through the trouble of researching something for years to be part of a scam. I can't see them originally starting out that way.

Not disagreeing with anyone, just saying there are always two sides to a story. So far people are not showing a good light for WIX. Not only this thread but an ongoing problem for a year now.

Nathan(the worried)

I'm open to hearing the other side. If someone can tell me something positive that TIGHAR has done, I'm willing to change my mind. Other than keeping Amelia's disappearance in the news, they really haven't done anything. I'll bet that TIGHAR probably started out with good, honest intentions, but I think that Gillespie/TIGHAR got corrupted by fame, greed, and money. When I first heard about them in the early 90's, I was an ardent TIGHAR supporter. I thought that it was really fantastic that a high profile organization with financial backing was trying to get to the bottom of the mystery. After TIGHAR came out with the flimsiest of corrupted evidence with the Lockheed panel and Amelia's "supposed" shoe, I lost all respect for them. They were trying to force evidence that clearly did not belong. TIGHAR was trying to force a square peg into a round hole to shore up support for their claims. I don't really blame them, as flawed as that logic is, as they HAD to have something for the investor's/sponsors. If you have nothing to show for the investor's, then you lose the financial backing - it's as simple as that. Gillespie was afraid of losing the financial backing, IMO. Like it or not, money runs this world.

I haven't just "bashed them in a free for all" for the sake of jumping on the bandwagon. My opinion has been formed by almost two decades of watching, researching, and talking to others who have dealt with TIGHAR. If they miracuously solve the Amelia mystery, I will recant everything I have said and become the most strident supporter they've ever had. I think the chances of that happening are about nil.

Nathan · **Posted:** Mon Dec 13, 2010 3:04 pm

warbird1 wrote:

Nathan wrote:

In all seriousness, I really don't have anything to go on with Tighar. I only learned about them from WIX and everytime someone mentions them its been a bashing free for all(finding myself joking about it have no idea what we are talking about).

While I don't dought people scam other people. I really can't see a group having a large interest in aviation history to be everything bad. I can't see anyone going through the trouble of researching something for years to be part of a scam. I can't see them originally starting out that way.

Not disagreeing with anyone, just saying there are always two sides to a story. So far people are not showing a good light for WIX. Not only this thread but an ongoing problem for a year now.

Nathan(the worried)

I'm open to hearing the other side. If someone can tell me something positive that TIGHAR has done, I'm willing to change my mind. Other than keeping Amelia's disappearance in the news, they really haven't done anything. I'll bet that TIGHAR probably started out with good, honest intentions, but I think that Gillespie/TIGHAR got corrupted by fame, greed, and money. When I first heard about them in the early 90's, I was an ardent TIGHAR supporter. I thought that it was really fantastic that a high profile organization with financial backing was trying to get to the bottom of the mystery. After TIGHAR came out with the flimsiest of corrupted evidence with the Lockheed panel and Amelia's "supposed" shoe, I lost all respect for them. They were trying to force evidence that clearly did not belong. TIGHAR was trying to force a square peg into a round hole to shore up support for their claims. I don't really blame them, as flawed as that logic is, as they HAD to have something for the investor's/sponsors. If you have nothing to show for the investor's, then you lose the financial backing - it's as simple as that. Gillespie was afraid of losing the financial backing, IMO. Like it or not, money runs this world.

I haven't just "bashed them in a free for all" for the sake of jumping on the bandwagon. My opinion has been formed by almost two decades of watching, researching, and talking to others who have dealt with TIGHAR. If they miracuously solve the Amelia mystery, I will recant everything I have said and become the most strident supporter they've ever had. I think the chances of that happening are about nil.

Thanks warbird1,

That is a much better understanding of the organization. Hope I didn't sound off it wasn't ment to be like that. Just trying to say is that it is hard to get an answer as to who they are and what they do. I agree that they probalby started out with a good heart. Maybe its still their I don't know. Open to opinions and details.

Cheers,
Nate

old iron · **Posted:** Mon Dec 13, 2010 3:20 pm

Quote:

If this organization is so widely known to be a scam operation, (and/or unable to show any positive results of their "quests") how come they keep getting money from the PT Barnum adherents.

PT Barnum himself answered this question: "there is a sucker born every minute."

Mudge · **Posted:** Mon Dec 13, 2010 3:45 pm

old iron wrote:

Quote:

If this organization is so widely known to be a scam operation, (and/or unable to show any positive results of their "quests") how come they keep getting money from the PT Barnum adherents.

PT Barnum himself answered this question: "there is a sucker born every minute."

Thanks...the question was pretty much rhetorical, though. :wink:

Mudge the obtuse

SPANNERmkV · **Posted:** Mon Dec 13, 2010 3:55 pm

I've got it!
Amelia was looking for the Japanese WMDs, (at the request of Prescott Bush... ALL Bush's fault :axe:

) the Japanese found her, shot her plane down and decided to destroy the evidence by a MASSIVE wall of flame. :finga:

That would make a GREAT new show for TORA! :butthead:

Merry Christmas to all and to all a good fight... er... make that flight!

SPANNER the Iconoclastic Spastic

Mudge · **Posted:** Mon Dec 13, 2010 4:06 pm

SPANNERmkV wrote:

I've got it!
Amelia was looking for the Japanese WMDs, (at the request of Prescott Bush... ALL Bush's fault :axe:

) the Japanese found her, shot her plane down and decided to destroy the evidence by a MASSIVE wall of flame. :finga:

That would make a GREAT new show for TORA! :butthead:

Merry Christmas to all and to all a good fight... er... make that flight!

SPANNER the Iconoclastic Spastic

Turn away from the bong!!!! :shock:

Mudge the puritan

Cubs · **Posted:** Mon Dec 13, 2010 4:59 pm

Nathan wrote:

I really can't see a group having a large interest in aviation history to be everything bad. I can't see anyone going through the trouble of researching something for years to be part of a scam. I can't see them originally starting out that way.

Nathan(the worried)

Nathan,
As the Brits would say, "you're a good ol' chap". But, I think you are making a couple of assumptions.
1. They don't have a large interest in aviation history. They have a large interest in making
money. (See my other post about what YOUR $50,000 can do.)
2.And it's not research. Why would any joe schmoh, off the street, be accepted as part of a serious research effort? Why? Because he has (had) $50K in his wallet.
3. As far as scams... they use sensationalist tactics to generate interest. 'we found a piece of aluminum with a rivet spacing the same as the Electra'. That same rivet pattern can probably be found on a hundred other aircraft. But, it generates intrigue. Never mind that
Gardner Island was inhabited throughout WWII by the US Navy operating a LORAN station.
No telling what kind of junk that generated during the war. Mind you this RESEARCH fact has never been mentioned by TIGHAR. (Too my knowledge). The shoe, the bones (that have since disappeared but, were examined by another doctor who said that... blah,blah,), eyewitnesses that can't be found, shoe, zipper pull. Zipper pull!!-- I got a big laugh with the Wix thread on that one.
Like Warbird1, I used to be a supporter of TIGHAR in it's early years. And I agree with Warbird1, corporate sponsors enjoy the advertising even if real evidence is not found.
It's the hype that bothers me, too. How much pre-publicity hype was produced before that
Corsair was raised from Lake Michigan recently? Little, if none. They just went and did it.
I've got more to say but, I think most of it has already been well said by others.

Paul

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