100LL Avgas phase out - end of warbird flying?

[Matt Gunsch]

Blind Man's Bluff tried to race on methenol at Reno, they got real good at changing engines.........................

[sdennison]

Blind Man's Bluff tried to race on methenol at Reno, they got real good at changing engines.........................

That seems unusual to me. I'd think that Reno would be the best place to use methanol. Granted, probably higher MP to make power but on board fuel quantity and short TBO on the engines all fit the racing application.

To keep the competition equal though, I'd guess there would have to be some restrictions on MP if you are running gas versus methanol. If they wanted to encourage methanol, weight advantages and boost advantages might be necessary. We went through that in Indy cars with the brief time they wanted to make normally aspirated cars competitive with turbo cars.

[engguy]

Like with everything else, when they find some supposed alternative for TEL, then years down the road we find out it's way worse for everyone.

And speaking of this sort of thing, MTBE should ring a bell or two.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methyl_tert-butyl_ether
Yeah almost makes TEL look like Hersheys syrup.

[engguy]

TEL,
Used mostly as an anti detonate. Cylinder head temps are much lower when using it than modern unleaded gasoline.

Trivia, when TEL was used years back, cancer was lower, there was less diease, some of use that grew up with our noses in exhaust back then are doing just fine.
TEL didn't hurt a thing then any more than leaded paint on our Tonka toys did.

I'll have to disagree here.

In its concentrated form, TEL is the closest thing to pure poison that I've ever had to deal with in 24 years in the chemical industry. Fortunately, it was already on the way out when I started.

We used to have a set of tech briefs from the Ethyl Company (manufacturer of TEL) that included handling instructions. These were intensely detailed instructions about how to handle this material (example -- If you spill TEL on an unsealed concrete floor, break up the floor and incinerate the remains!). Keep in mind that these instructions dated from the 1960s, when it was unusual for chemicals of any kind to come with such detailed and scary-sounding instructions (this was long before the advent of material safety data sheets). Nowadays, I would imagine that handling instructions for TEL are probably almost as involved as those for plutonium.

The whole problem with lead is ingestion. As long as it stays outside the body, it's not an issue. But if it does get ingested, it's a cumulative poison -- it stays in the body, and has particularly nasty effects on intelligence in children. Having done some work with TEL, I think we're all far better off without it.

That said, I hope that a solution can be found that allows the aircraft we all love to continue flying with non-leaded fuels.

"IN IT'S CONCENTRATED FORM" Yeah there are many things that are very dangerous in concentrated form. H2O is pretty deadly in that form too, especially if you can't tread water for ever.
I would rather live in a world of TEL in motor fuel than one with radioative isotopes floating everywhere, and talk about in its concentrated form.
There are so many things we all use everyday that if in concentrated form
there would be massive deaths everyday from it, such as common day household cleaners, and first aid items like hydrogen peroxide.
So you can demonize anything with that statement.
Lead in the body? There are scavengers for us just as there was for the engines that burned it. If memory serves broccoli and asparagus scaveng such metals. Lead is a NATURAL occuring element.

[ZRX61]

Blind Man's Bluff tried to race on methenol at Reno, they got real good at changing engines.........................

Los Angeles MTA converted a bunch of their buses to run on it.... & *then* they discovered that it's corrosive to aluminum... Bit too late by then, expensive lesson....

I knew about it back in the '70's when I used to race grasstrack & speedway in the UK. Used to drain the aluminum fuel tank before taking the bike home... Makes an excellent weed & lawn killer btw

[muddyboots]

Lead in the body? There are scavengers for us just as there was for the engines that burned it. If memory serves broccoli and asparagus scaveng such metals. Lead is a NATURAL occuring element.

are you kidding me?