Sat Jun 06, 2009 9:40 am
Glad it turned out for the better. It does not look that bad, maybe they can repair it WW2 style and continue for the summer and then when the snow flies in canada, take it apart and do it right. Call it a bad tank run on the russian front.
I hope the canadian govt takes care of that property owner. That was definate intent to harm.
I hope the canadian govt takes care of that property owner. That was definate intent to harm.
Sat Jun 06, 2009 10:58 am
Chuck Gardner wrote:A German fighter flown by a British pilot in Canada brought down by an AAP. Crazy world we live in.
The other funny story is that the airplane was rebuilt by a Brit and flown over to the States crated up on an El Al (the Isreali) airliner for an American customer. They wanted to know what was in the 'box'. Craig Charleston had to get 'special clearance' and a recommendation from some friends in the IAF....!!!
Sat Jun 06, 2009 11:12 am
Don't know about Canadien laws but in the U.S.. the landowner does not own the sky above their property. There are tons of restrictions with what you can do on your own property, say height restrictions, for radio towers, and other structures. There are also laws and rights given to aircraft operators for transitioning from their airspace and the takeoff and landing facilities.
You do not have a right to impede an aircraft operators access to the airport. If you impede it you have to flag or put strobes on the tower or crane and it must be notam'd for that airport.
Was the pilot buzzing his girlfriend's house 25 miles from the airport? No, he was taking off from his own airport which I believe is a federally recognized airport facility.
The person that erected those poles better have a great reason and need for having done that action.
All kinds of charges could be brought towards him. Reckless endangerment, attempted manslaughter, assault, willful destruction of property, property damages and on and on. If he also did this last year then it shows a pattern and premeditation to try to kill pilots and airplanes.
YOu can't just find an airworthy E model wing and bolt it on and do airshows. Whoever suggested that, hasn't a clue how nonexistent spare parts are for real Messerchmitts, particularly those built before the G-model.
Just "thinking out loud" But I would press all applicable criminal charges, and I would turn my insurance company's attorneys onto it. I would cancell all airshow appearances and marketing events, for the next 24 months and charge him for loss of revenue. I would have the wing and it's singlespar design "written off" and assess him the cost of finding and e model wing, purchased and rebuilt to airworthy standards.
Then I would assessment him for loss of ticket sales to the events this "unique" draw was set to attend, and assess him a cost for loss of use and enjoyment of the plane by the owner for the next two years . He also must pay all legal and court costs.
I think the hostile landowner will want to move. You might even be able to take his land from him in arbitration or as partial payment for attorney costs. It's a shame they didn't "nip this in the bud' the first year he became hostile.
You do not have a right to impede an aircraft operators access to the airport. If you impede it you have to flag or put strobes on the tower or crane and it must be notam'd for that airport.
Was the pilot buzzing his girlfriend's house 25 miles from the airport? No, he was taking off from his own airport which I believe is a federally recognized airport facility.
The person that erected those poles better have a great reason and need for having done that action.
All kinds of charges could be brought towards him. Reckless endangerment, attempted manslaughter, assault, willful destruction of property, property damages and on and on. If he also did this last year then it shows a pattern and premeditation to try to kill pilots and airplanes.
YOu can't just find an airworthy E model wing and bolt it on and do airshows. Whoever suggested that, hasn't a clue how nonexistent spare parts are for real Messerchmitts, particularly those built before the G-model.
Just "thinking out loud" But I would press all applicable criminal charges, and I would turn my insurance company's attorneys onto it. I would cancell all airshow appearances and marketing events, for the next 24 months and charge him for loss of revenue. I would have the wing and it's singlespar design "written off" and assess him the cost of finding and e model wing, purchased and rebuilt to airworthy standards.
Then I would assessment him for loss of ticket sales to the events this "unique" draw was set to attend, and assess him a cost for loss of use and enjoyment of the plane by the owner for the next two years . He also must pay all legal and court costs.
I think the hostile landowner will want to move. You might even be able to take his land from him in arbitration or as partial payment for attorney costs. It's a shame they didn't "nip this in the bud' the first year he became hostile.
Sat Jun 06, 2009 11:27 am
This entire story sounds horrid but lets also remember every story has two sides no matter how thinly it is sliced. It may well end being as bad as everyone is assuming but we have nothing to gain by conducting a trial here with evidence based on our assumptions.
Sat Jun 06, 2009 8:02 pm
Marine Air........ There is only one problem with what you have written.... There needs to be ZONING LAWS. If your property is NOT ZONED, you can do what you want. You can put in a telephone pole or a 250' high windmill (got a real story about flying helicopters around them in fog).......
IIRC near Youngstown Ohio, there is a tower (on the charts) that must be 500'+ (for some reason I think it was like 1300', but thats taking memories back 30 years flying in that area).......
So if I want to put a pole in my ground, I can.... To some extent, there may be some consideration in a lawsuit as to my INTENT in putting it in....... A windmill is one thing. A pole to keep low flyers away is another.
I can say this. If there was only one pole, running into it is more the pilot's fault, IF he knew it was there or used the airport since the pole was erected, he SHOULD have been aware of it. I fly around poles, posts and towers everyday and haven't hit one yet......
I'm not even going into CONTRIBUTORY NEGLIGENCE here....
So before everyone starts lynching people, you need to know all the facts as well as the relevant law.
Mark H
IIRC near Youngstown Ohio, there is a tower (on the charts) that must be 500'+ (for some reason I think it was like 1300', but thats taking memories back 30 years flying in that area).......
So if I want to put a pole in my ground, I can.... To some extent, there may be some consideration in a lawsuit as to my INTENT in putting it in....... A windmill is one thing. A pole to keep low flyers away is another.
I can say this. If there was only one pole, running into it is more the pilot's fault, IF he knew it was there or used the airport since the pole was erected, he SHOULD have been aware of it. I fly around poles, posts and towers everyday and haven't hit one yet......
I'm not even going into CONTRIBUTORY NEGLIGENCE here....
So before everyone starts lynching people, you need to know all the facts as well as the relevant law.
Mark H
Sat Jun 06, 2009 8:46 pm
marine air wrote: You can't just find an airworthy E model wing and bolt it on and do airshows. Whoever suggested that, hasn't a clue how nonexistent spare parts are for real Messerchmitts, particularly those built before the G-model.
Ironically, I just saw two E model wings today.....just sitting there, leaning against a wall. The owner (no, not Connie Edwards) showed me a hangar that has several more wings and (I think he said) three more E model fuselages in it. The guy was incredibly busy today, so I was unable to take a look inside the hangar, but I'm thinkin' that maybe I'm gonna make another trip very soon to check it out.
I'm hoping that the wing for the 109 in this thread can be repaired pretty easily, but this other fella may be a source for some parts, should they need them.
Gary
Sat Jun 06, 2009 11:01 pm
F*** the lawyer crap,lets light a bag of poo ring the door bell and run! 
bill
bill
Sun Jun 07, 2009 4:09 am
retroaviation wrote:The owner (no, not Connie Edwards) showed me a hangar that has several more wings and (I think he said) three more E model fuselages in it.
Gary
Real ones? Not Buchons?
Sun Jun 07, 2009 4:19 am
Fouga23 wrote:retroaviation wrote:The owner (no, not Connie Edwards) showed me a hangar that has several more wings and (I think he said) three more E model fuselages in it.
Gary
Real ones? Not Buchons?
Yup. That's what the man told me. I've kinda-sorta confirmed it after talking with a good friend of mine who knew about them as well. As mentioned before, I didn't get to see the rest of the pile, but there was a Daimler-Benz engine sitting there in a stand. So that's promising.
Sorry to hijack the thread with this stuff, y'all.
Gary
Sun Jun 07, 2009 4:55 am
Amazing. One E model and that 2 seater Buchon for me please 
Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:51 am
Gary, that rates it's own thread with PICTURES!!! 
Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:55 am
Are the wings owner initials ML?
Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:57 am
marine air wrote: YOu can't just find an airworthy E model wing and bolt it on and do airshows. Whoever suggested that, hasn't a clue how nonexistent spare parts are for real Messerchmitts, particularly those built before the G-model.
Having written two books on the Bf 109 and studied it for over 25 years, yes, I am MORE than well aware how rare these parts are. The point being made was the ease of maintenance as opposed to an aircraft with a carry-through spar such as a Mustang, which would require dismounting the entire wing assembly to repair.
And if Paul Allen was feeling generous, yes, you COULD get another airworthy Emil wing on WNr 3579, but that would be highly unlikely at this point.
Lynn
Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:59 am
retroaviation wrote:marine air wrote: You can't just find an airworthy E model wing and bolt it on and do airshows. Whoever suggested that, hasn't a clue how nonexistent spare parts are for real Messerchmitts, particularly those built before the G-model.
Ironically, I just saw two E model wings today.....just sitting there, leaning against a wall. The owner (no, not Connie Edwards) showed me a hangar that has several more wings and (I think he said) three more E model fuselages in it. The guy was incredibly busy today, so I was unable to take a look inside the hangar, but I'm thinkin' that maybe I'm gonna make another trip very soon to check it out.
I'm hoping that the wing for the 109 in this thread can be repaired pretty easily, but this other fella may be a source for some parts, should they need them.
Gary
Ahem... photos? Any word on the identities of these aircraft? Inquiring minds want to know!
Lynn
Sun Jun 07, 2009 7:12 am
Chuck Gardner wrote:Are the wings owner initials ML?
Sorry, no photos (yet)......and yes, Chuck, you got it right. Do you have any further info on if the info I have is right? I don't want to be spreading false news...even if it's old news.
Gary