Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:03 am
RyanShort1 wrote:Hey Mudge... Try doing that a few more times to get used to it and then come down here to TX and stay in the uniform ALL day - when the tarmac's oh, say 100 degrees...That's a nice lot of fruit salad under the wings, BTW. Interesting to look up all of the ribbons and try to figure out which stands for what.
Ryan
Ryan...I already know what the ribbons are and as far as 100 degrees in full uni...BTDT. Kirtland AFB. (But it was a "dry" heat.
)
Mudge the sweaty
Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:39 am
Like Mudge, I was impressed with the Helldiver. Not sure I'd go as far and call it beautiful though.
Did a heck of a photo pass on Sunday.
Hadn't seen the below aircraft in years. Last time maybe in Elmira, NY.
Wasn't sure it still even existed.
Did a heck of a photo pass on Sunday.
Hadn't seen the below aircraft in years. Last time maybe in Elmira, NY.
Wasn't sure it still even existed.
Mon Jun 08, 2009 11:41 am
As I knew would happen, plenty of great pics of the a/c from MAAM. Mrs. Mudge asked why I wasn't taking pictures. I told her "I have people".
The air show is so much more enjoyable without a camera stuck to my face.
Youse troops take much better pictures than I do, anyway.
I'm thinking of selling all my camera stuff. About $3,000 worth.
Mudge the jaded
The air show is so much more enjoyable without a camera stuck to my face.
Youse troops take much better pictures than I do, anyway.
I'm thinking of selling all my camera stuff. About $3,000 worth.
Mudge the jaded
Mon Jun 08, 2009 11:52 am
Mudge wrote:RyanShort1 wrote:Hey Mudge... Try doing that a few more times to get used to it and then come down here to TX and stay in the uniform ALL day - when the tarmac's oh, say 100 degrees...
Ryan
Ryan...I already know what the ribbons are and as far as 100 degrees in full uni...BTDT. Kirtland AFB. (But it was a "dry" heat.
Mudge the sweaty
Hey Mudge-
Your uniform looks spectacular, and the two of you look wonderful together- one question though, did you get any comments about your ribbons/awards? While putting together my Captain uniform, I did a lot of digging on different boards, trying to get a sense for what people felt was "acceptable" as far as wearing awards, and it seemed like there was a general consensus that wearing any ribbons, etc which weren't earned was a big "no-no". That was enough to dissuade me from putting together even a small three-ribbon rack for my uniform.
Just curious what your experience was. Oh, and here's a recent pic of me with Gottfried Dulias- a German WWII vet who claims to have flown with 3./JG 53 in Russia.
Cheers!
Lynn
Mon Jun 08, 2009 11:53 am
k5083 wrote:Some stray thoughts on yesterday.
Best weather than I can recall in years. Neither wet not stifling hot.
New/old layout is not so bad. CONS: Staring into the sun is hard on everyone, not just photographers. Crowd line is much shorter, so fewer front row seats, more jockeying for position. Ground battle had to use a smaller area; Iwo Jima and flamethrower stuff was invisible to airshow crowd. PROS: You get to see much more takeoff, landing, and taxiing action, so much more total activity and stuff to keep you amused between the flying, and there was a lot of "between the flying" this year. For photography, the sun ends up a little right of center so you can get nice side lighting if you catch the planes approaching from the left.
Jim's Spitfire is lovely and he did a nice display. Thanks Jim.
Dameo's Corsair display also was very nice, just upstaged by Jim.
CAF Helldiver was very welcome and impressive. I was surprised that they did not take the opportunity to correct the shape of the national insignia during the repaint. Guess no one cares about that stuff. Otherwise it looked great.
This was my first look at the CAF logos on the side of significant CAF airplanes, and they're not as intrusive as I thought. They suck, but not enough to get worked up about.
Old Crow is a nice plane.
Too bad nothing from Duffy or Yagen this year. Hope they're back for '10.
August
The weather is the best it has been since 2002. Last year it did not rain but it was about a billion degrees on Sunday and I heard the same from Sat. Jim's Spit, the Helldiver and the Dauntless were excellent. I have not seen the Dauntless in a few years and that Helldiver was smooth as could be. I was surprised at how quick that plane moves. The new CAF logo isn't terrible, but it is intrusive. That Griffon sounds incredible! I hope to see that again this summer. The ground displays were rather nice this year, but I agree the shorter crowd line is a drag. I would imagine since Terry's accident in the Avenger Tom has been a bit preoccupied. I was also sorry that Jerry Yagen was not there with anything. Did anyone else happen to notice the swarm of insects that came charging across the field from out of nowhere yesterday? That was a bit creepy.
Mon Jun 08, 2009 12:26 pm
Since my first post I've had a few more random thoughts.
Cranking up the 2 Mustangs on that little pad off Taxiway G right in front of the crowd was cool. Seeing Connie Bowlin strap on the P-51 right at center stage there should have been an inspiration to girls in the crowd. I wish announcer Fast Eddie had drawn attention to that.
Which reminds me, I would like Fast Eddie to go away. Fast.
The missing man for Bob B. was nice, but I was surprised to see it. I would have expected many, especially at this venue, to view it as inappropriate to use what is traditionally a salute to all KIAs to honor one civvy warbird pilot who punched his ticket while practicing acro, however well liked he was. But I didn't mind personally, and didn't hear any complaints.
It was nice of the reenactors to pass out spent shell casings to kids in the crowd after the battle.
Props to MAAM for the reasonably priced $2 hot dogs. I spent all my food and souvenir money at the MAAM booths this year, preferring that they receive all the margin from my purchases.
There was a rumor among the locals that there will be an all-out effort for the 20th show next year. Hope the successful weekend gives them a good financial base to build on.
August
Cranking up the 2 Mustangs on that little pad off Taxiway G right in front of the crowd was cool. Seeing Connie Bowlin strap on the P-51 right at center stage there should have been an inspiration to girls in the crowd. I wish announcer Fast Eddie had drawn attention to that.
Which reminds me, I would like Fast Eddie to go away. Fast.
The missing man for Bob B. was nice, but I was surprised to see it. I would have expected many, especially at this venue, to view it as inappropriate to use what is traditionally a salute to all KIAs to honor one civvy warbird pilot who punched his ticket while practicing acro, however well liked he was. But I didn't mind personally, and didn't hear any complaints.
It was nice of the reenactors to pass out spent shell casings to kids in the crowd after the battle.
Props to MAAM for the reasonably priced $2 hot dogs. I spent all my food and souvenir money at the MAAM booths this year, preferring that they receive all the margin from my purchases.
There was a rumor among the locals that there will be an all-out effort for the 20th show next year. Hope the successful weekend gives them a good financial base to build on.
August
Mon Jun 08, 2009 12:36 pm
Lynn-
Just curious- the photo of you and the German vet is fascinating. Brought up a question I've periodically wondered about... we don't really blink at re-enactors or even actual vets wearing service uniforms from WWII, WWI etc. Of course, we won, so to us it's a way of honoring a vet's service or remembering those who served. We've even gotten used to the idea of both sides being represented in Civil War re-enactments (after all, if only the Union guys showed up who would be there to fight?) But I wonder how many actual vets of WWII that fought for the Axis instead of the Allies have put their uniform on (or even a replica uniform) after the immediate post-war period? The idea of an Imperial Japanese soldier putting his WWII uniform back on, or especially a WWII German vet doing the same thing, with the uniform's swasticas present, is just something I hadn't figured would happen much. Does anyone have stories/photos of this taking place? Not to hijack the thread too much, but I think it's an interesting/challenging concept.
kevin
Just curious- the photo of you and the German vet is fascinating. Brought up a question I've periodically wondered about... we don't really blink at re-enactors or even actual vets wearing service uniforms from WWII, WWI etc. Of course, we won, so to us it's a way of honoring a vet's service or remembering those who served. We've even gotten used to the idea of both sides being represented in Civil War re-enactments (after all, if only the Union guys showed up who would be there to fight?) But I wonder how many actual vets of WWII that fought for the Axis instead of the Allies have put their uniform on (or even a replica uniform) after the immediate post-war period? The idea of an Imperial Japanese soldier putting his WWII uniform back on, or especially a WWII German vet doing the same thing, with the uniform's swasticas present, is just something I hadn't figured would happen much. Does anyone have stories/photos of this taking place? Not to hijack the thread too much, but I think it's an interesting/challenging concept.
kevin
Mon Jun 08, 2009 12:38 pm
No comments about ribbons. As far as what's a "no-no" and what isn't, my reply would be, "It's a re-enactment. It's a bunch of people pretending to be something they're not." If it was to be "authentic", nobody could be over 5'6" and 150 lbs. There are guys my age walking around with all sorts of "pretend" uniforms. In 1940-'45 there weren't too many 60-65 year old Lieutenants or M/Sgts. There were few, if any, aircrew members that weighed over 150 lbs. You'll see 101st and 82nd Airborne re-enactors that are over 6' and 200 lbs. Sorry...didn't (or rarely) happen.
These "re-enactments" are no more factual than any WWII movie you'll see. Saving Private Ryan and Band of Brothers were very good WWII "re-enactments" but anyone who has studied either will tell you that Steven Ambrose, Max Collins, Tom Hanks, and Steven Spielberg played kinda' fast and loose with the facts.
If they can do it, so can I.
Please don't take this as a rant. It's really just something that I thought long and hard about before I jumped in.
Mudge the relaxed
These "re-enactments" are no more factual than any WWII movie you'll see. Saving Private Ryan and Band of Brothers were very good WWII "re-enactments" but anyone who has studied either will tell you that Steven Ambrose, Max Collins, Tom Hanks, and Steven Spielberg played kinda' fast and loose with the facts.
If they can do it, so can I.
Please don't take this as a rant. It's really just something that I thought long and hard about before I jumped in.
Mudge the relaxed
Mon Jun 08, 2009 12:45 pm
k5083 wrote:Since my first post I've had a few more random thoughts.
Cranking up the 2 Mustangs on that little pad off Taxiway G right in front of the crowd was cool. Seeing Connie Bowlin strap on the P-51 right at center stage there should have been an inspiration to girls in the crowd. I wish announcer Fast Eddie had drawn attention to that.
Which reminds me, I would like Fast Eddie to go away. Fast.
The missing man for Bob B. was nice, but I was surprised to see it. I would have expected many, especially at this venue, to view it as inappropriate to use what is traditionally a salute to all KIAs to honor one civvy warbird pilot who punched his ticket while practicing acro, however well liked he was. But I didn't mind personally, and didn't hear any complaints.
It was nice of the reenactors to pass out spent shell casings to kids in the crowd after the battle.
Props to MAAM for the reasonably priced $2 hot dogs. I spent all my food and souvenir money at the MAAM booths this year, preferring that they receive all the margin from my purchases.
There was a rumor among the locals that there will be an all-out effort for the 20th show next year. Hope the successful weekend gives them a good financial base to build on.
August
If they can get the reenactor parking straightened out for next year, I'd probably enjoy coming for the 20th. The only real issue I had with the show was the fact that the reenactor parking is on undulating hillside, covered in grass, with a clay below: once it had rained for two days straight, they should have changed the location to somewhere level, and firmer. With a multitude of vehicles traversing the wet grass, the main trails were sufficiently torn up and churned as to be miasmic. I got my car stuck not once, but twice- once going in, once going out, and both times required a great deal of help to get out. A 3/4 ton WC series Dodge pulled me out the first time- after pulling his buddie's F-250 4WD out, which had gotten stuck assisting me: The second cost me $75 for a wrecker! I was not the only one- by Saturday afternoon, it had not sufficiently firmed up, as I found out. I saw one yellow Mustang which must have had a terrible time getting out- there was a great stretch of mud, to the depth of about a foot, between him and any egress... There were cars fully caked in splattered on mud. And the two boy geniuses in an MB/GPW who were playing mud bog with the Jeep and spinning up the trails(intentionally!) were no help- I wanted to hit them for rechurning the mud.
Other than the reenactor parking, (And tons of mud in the Flea Market) the event was great- I was glad to finally meet a pair of the Doolittle Raiders, and renewed acquaintances of years past with other vets...
And 3 of the $2 hot doggies really hit the spot Saturday Afternoon...
Robbie
( still cooling off after 5 hours of wasted time being stuck... )
Mon Jun 08, 2009 1:02 pm
Mudge wrote:No comments about ribbons. As far as what's a "no-no" and what isn't, my reply would be, "It's a re-enactment. It's a bunch of people pretending to be something they're not." If it was to be "authentic", nobody could be over 5'6" and 150 lbs. There are guys my age walking around with all sorts of "pretend" uniforms. In 1940-'45 there weren't too many 60-65 year old Lieutenants or M/Sgts. There were few, if any, aircrew members that weighed over 150 lbs. You'll see 101st and 82nd Airborne re-enactors that are over 6' and 200 lbs. Sorry...didn't (or rarely) happen.
These "re-enactments" are no more factual than any WWII movie you'll see. Saving Private Ryan and Band of Brothers were very good WWII "re-enactments" but anyone who has studied either will tell you that Steven Ambrose, Max Collins, Tom Hanks, and Steven Spielberg played kinda' fast and loose with the facts.
If they can do it, so can I.
Please don't take this as a rant. It's really just something that I thought long and hard about before I jumped in.
Mudge the relaxed
Mudge, my old friend, I will not take umbrage at your remarks, being a 43 year old reenactor, who is a little more overweight than he should be, wearing a Capt or SSgt WWII USAAF impression... But the simple facts are that it is not the age or size of the reenactor you should look at, but what they actually know, and how dedicated they are. Many younger guys are starting to come in- but many do not know as well as those of us who have years of studying the war. We do not get all gussied up to "Play Army", but rather to present it to a public which is generally uneducated in the history. If all we presented was an accurate dress size soldier, then there would be no ability to discuss in depth the history, the experiences and personalities we have all come to know, and desire to share. I am not saying the younger ones are completely devoid of knowledge, but us older ones often have decades more experience with the subject, and usually much more contact with "original cast" members: a soon to be lost opportunity as the youngest WWII Vets are in their 80s.
Remember- it is the spirit of the times and the history we are trying to portray: it would be impossible to keep the reenactor ranks filled only with 20 somethings in fit condition- especially when most of them are much heavier than their 1940s counterparts! So please forgive us being a little larger rounder or older than the WWII GI, Airman, Marine, or Sailor, Coast Guardsman, Merchant Marine, Paratrooper, Waffen Soldat, Russian soldier, Japanese military, etc... We just all have to face the fact time moves on, and do the best we can with what we have to work with...
BTW- Looked good in the uniform! And I am pretty certain I saw your wife in uniform at sometime- Pretty women in uniform always catch my eye!
Kudos to both of you!
Robbie
Mon Jun 08, 2009 1:06 pm
Robbie..."MIASMIC" and "EGRESS" in one post 
You've been at the thesaurus again.
As far as the re-enacting goes, you're absolutely correct about the knowledge we bring to the event and that we are portraying the spirit of the event.
I was stopped numerous times to be asked about my uniform, it's accouterments (thought I'd throw in a little "frenchy" there), and the history I was portraying. I explained about the Eagle Squadron insignia I was wearing and was somewhat surprised that so little was known about them. Luckily, I wasn't asked anything I couldn't answer.
I take no "umbrage" at the over age, over weight re-enactors. I can't, I are both.
Mudge the impressed
You've been at the thesaurus again.
As far as the re-enacting goes, you're absolutely correct about the knowledge we bring to the event and that we are portraying the spirit of the event.
I was stopped numerous times to be asked about my uniform, it's accouterments (thought I'd throw in a little "frenchy" there), and the history I was portraying. I explained about the Eagle Squadron insignia I was wearing and was somewhat surprised that so little was known about them. Luckily, I wasn't asked anything I couldn't answer.
I take no "umbrage" at the over age, over weight re-enactors. I can't, I are both.
Mudge the impressed
Last edited by Mudge on Mon Jun 08, 2009 1:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Mon Jun 08, 2009 1:07 pm
Robbie Roberts wrote: I saw one yellow Mustang which must have had a terrible time getting out- there was a great stretch of mud, to the depth of about a foot, between him and any egress... Robbie
( still cooling off after 5 hours of wasted time being stuck... )
I also saw that Mustang and thought the same thing
I was lucky, Saturday I parked on the shoulder of the road around the airport in the woods. It was firm and shady.
Mon Jun 08, 2009 1:24 pm
That Griffin Mk18 was badass. It sounded like a very angry Merlin.
My only complaint was the insane volume of the loudspeakers that were very hard to avoid with the early crowds, even though I set up shop around 845am.
My only complaint was the insane volume of the loudspeakers that were very hard to avoid with the early crowds, even though I set up shop around 845am.
Mon Jun 08, 2009 1:51 pm
Mudge wrote:No comments about ribbons. As far as what's a "no-no" and what isn't, my reply would be, "It's a re-enactment. It's a bunch of people pretending to be something they're not." If it was to be "authentic", nobody could be over 5'6" and 150 lbs. There are guys my age walking around with all sorts of "pretend" uniforms. In 1940-'45 there weren't too many 60-65 year old Lieutenants or M/Sgts. There were few, if any, aircrew members that weighed over 150 lbs. You'll see 101st and 82nd Airborne re-enactors that are over 6' and 200 lbs. Sorry...didn't (or rarely) happen.
These "re-enactments" are no more factual than any WWII movie you'll see. Saving Private Ryan and Band of Brothers were very good WWII "re-enactments" but anyone who has studied either will tell you that Steven Ambrose, Max Collins, Tom Hanks, and Steven Spielberg played kinda' fast and loose with the facts.
If they can do it, so can I.
Please don't take this as a rant. It's really just something that I thought long and hard about before I jumped in.
Mudge the relaxed
Mudge . I saw you and Mrs Mudge several times on Saturday. I wish I had know it was you. You both looked great! As far as the overweight oversized issue of re enactors, there was a trooper in the 82nd 508thPIR who was 6'8". He was killed I believe defending the bridges at La Fiere in June of 44. So let that be entered in the record.
.
Mon Jun 08, 2009 2:11 pm
Sasnak wrote:Did anybody get any good photos of the P-61 this past weekend?
It was a bit crowded in the hanger, but here are some Widow pics from Friday. Things I noticed since last november... Note the front parts of the cowlings on the floor, rear glass has been installed, belly panels installed... Lots of visible progress.
And my latest souvenir
And my post from last Nov.
http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/p ... t=maam+p61
Last edited by TAdan on Mon Jun 08, 2009 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.