Forum question.........

[Forgotten Field]

I was interested that Forgotten Field had had some 'negative' meetings with WIX members. I've been very careful who I aim to meet up with, and because of that, I've made some great friends and many contacts that wouldn't have happened otherwise.

I won't give times, places, or names as I don't wish to offend the individuals, despite the fact that meeting them was a negative experience. Also, I don't always have a choice who I meet as I have a business related to warbirds. Additionally, I've had similar bad experiences from other internet sites. But that is through thousands and thousands of contacts in my 12 years on the internet. Maybe it was superfluous to mention it- it certainly was not meant to reflect badly on WIX, but to demonstrate some of the negatives that come with participation here.

As I said before, this site is owned and run by people whose decisions must be followed. If those decisions are not followed, then participation should be terminated by the owners. This has occurred numerous times. Despite the fact that this environment exists, its mere existence doesn't mean it is the best, most progressive and encompassing site regarding warbirds. The way this site has been run and the persons participating here have combined to alienate certain elements of the warbird community. Maybe this is inevitable, as in many cases of public forums. But I don't think it is inevitable to have a false debate about anything and let it detract from the site. What we are discussing here is participation, and practices which encourage participation. I suggested that certain practices to this point have discouraged participation. While that may just be the hazards of this type of public forum, it doesn't mean we have to retreat behind the good ol' "Everything is okay and you shouldn't complain" policy.

Cindy raised a good question, it led to some questions and posts, and now it is being discussed. I believe that is healthy for the site. But I would also say that this has been raised before and perhaps not dealt with in an appropriate manner. I'm not saying things were dealt with in a completely inappropriate fashion- I mean to say that it didn't really move the site forward, and perhaps alienated a few more people. I don't know that for a fact, but am just speculating based on what I have noticed in the warbird community and what others seem to have noticed. When I say what I have noticed- that means people with whom I have regular conversations who have just given up on WIX and stated to me "I don't want to participate." Again no names will be divulged. But suffice to say I think this place would be a better place for us if they were here posting.

I enjoy most of what is here on WIX. My personal opinion is just that- my personal opinion. But it is my opinion that the negative environment still exists and hinders the growth of participation. I hope the WIX grows and prospers. But my hopes aren't what is going to make a difference here.

[bdk]

But I would also say that this has been raised before and perhaps not dealt with in an appropriate manner. I'm not saying things were dealt with in a completely inappropriate fashion- I mean to say that it didn't really move the site forward, and perhaps alienated a few more people. I don't know that for a fact, but am just speculating based on what I have noticed in the warbird community and what others seem to have noticed. When I say what I have noticed- that means people with whom I have regular conversations who have just given up on WIX and stated to me "I don't want to participate." Again no names will be divulged. But suffice to say I think this place would be a better place for us if they were here posting.

Can you give some specific recommendations for how the site should be operated differently to increase participation? I would think the goal would be to make this site inclusive of as many folks as possible.

Are politics the primary turnoff, or what?

[Forgotten Field]

I couldn't characterize in one sentence what was said about the WIX. I am paraphrasing, but it usually sounded like, "Those people are out of touch with reality." I don't take that as a complete indictment of WIX, just a perception of some of the negatives here that seem to rise to the surface, and enough to make people whose time is valuable (which I believe is most people) want to shy away.

Changes?

1. Ownership of a post. If you post, you decide who posts after you, and approve what is said before allowing it to be posted. That would avoid a lot of hurt feelings. Kinda like parents discussing what is said to their kids before leaving the bedroom. It might help out the moderators as well.

2. Resolution center. If you have problems with somebody, you go off somewhere else to resolve it. That is the stick the moderators should be using more than they are.

3. Back yourself up. If it isn't written down somewhere, it probably isn't true. At least take some rudimentary time to research what you are interested in posting before blurting it out here on WIX. That's an individual thing, but many here (including myself) could benefit from doing that.

4. No personal attacks. If a person even sniffs they're being attacked, they are being attacked, and what is written should be removed. An attack can be more subtle than people realize, like a series of 'downer' posts after a particular individual's posts by one person. Think Donald Sutherland as Oddball, "Enough with the negative waves, Moriarty!"

5. Post limit. We have too many recreational posters. I checked my list, and it seems that I posted less than one a day for the time I have been here. I probably could have posted much less than that. Sometimes less is more. Perhaps if you are hitting more than 4 posts a day, you are posting too much. I don't like limiting free speech, but I support encouraging people to be succinct and encouraging in their words.

6. Monthly events and themes. There are things which come up and would be hotbeds of discussion. But they get buried by Jack Cook's photos (good thing) or a succession of posts about other things which steal the front page. Pick a monthly topic and make a post up top about it, similar to the Grumman photos, movies, etc. This gives people time to research or develop questions for an in-depth subject, instead of having to skip it for difficulty of finding it. This also could be owned by an individual to decrease the requirements for the moderators to be police.

7. Actually get out there and work on a warbird. I'm not saying this should be a requirement, but there are a good number of people here who would benefit from this, not to mention the warbirds. They don't fly without work and there is always plenty of work. If you are going to post here asking why there aren't more polished airplanes, you could probably answer that question yourself by going to a polishing party on one. Please don't take this as a criticism of serious academic work on warbirds and their associated history. These warbirds don't exist without mucho labor; I just believe many hands make light work, and light work helps the mind work better, therefore, will make you a better poster here on WIX.

[bdk]

FF, great post!

What do they mean by, "out of touch"? With the varying ages and experience of posters, how might you keep folks "in touch" or discourage posts from those out of touch?

1. Ownership of a post. If you post, you decide who posts after you, and approve what is said before allowing it to be posted.

So the thread poster moderates their own thread to keep it on topic? Are there forums out there that have this in place?

2. Resolution center. If you have problems with somebody, you go off somewhere else to resolve it. That is the stick the moderators should be using more than they are.

Are you talking about PMs, or a different kind of service?

5. Post limit. We have too many recreational posters. I checked my list, and it seems that I posted less than one a day for the time I have been here. I probably could have posted much less than that. Sometimes less is more. Perhaps if you are hitting more than 4 posts a day, you are posting too much.

Well, as one of the WIXers with a high post count, I'm not sure how to take that (3.44/day). I'm sure I don't sometimes, but hopefully I do add value with a significant number of my postings. It is hard to set an arbitrary limit of good vs. bad based upon post count. Content is king. It is also hard to know what information might be especially interesting.

7. Actually get out there and work on a warbird.

I have and I do. I have also invited folks out to help, but location and time commitments are difficult to align. I had one WIX member come out 5 or 6 times and he was a great help. Unfortunately he had some other things going on in his life that didn't allow him to continue. I have also had a few WIXers come out to socialize, and all I have met have been great.

[tom d. friedman]

the rules of this site have been more than well stated. with that point out of the way it becomes an issue of getting along while playing in the sand box. i spend countless hours on the phone trying to rectify business screw ups ( none of my own of course ) it takes a cool head, hands down. i've ripped many heads off trying to get my way, to salvage a few valuable bucks to keep my biz afloat, but not always to my satisfaction. respect is is a 2 way street.

[mustangdriver]

I think that the WIX is a great place. I always treated it like a bunch of us standing around in hangar just B.S.ing. We are all passionate about aviation, because we all love it. Are there times things get heated? You bet. But I always make an attempt to make sure the person that I am talking with knows that I mean nothing by it more than a conversation. I find myself in the high post category because I work a job that requires me to be awake at odd hours of the night. In bad weather months, I have to be up and around with nothing to do, so I tend to post more on WIX. I too believe that everyone should try to get out and get their hands dirty on a warbird, whether it be a privately owned or museum aircraft, it will be rewarding.

[Karpis]

I had my first meet-up with several WIX'ers a few years back at a well-known show. With only one-or-two exceptions, I felt I was being given the cold shoulder by the group. I let it go and decided to try again at a later show. It happened again. I continued to check this site on a regular basis, but somehow it didn't hold the charm it once had.
What sux is---I have been a warbird fan for thirty years. I photograph and videotape airplanes and airshows. I feel I am knowledgeable enough on the subject to at least be involved in conversations on the subject without coming off as a know-it-all. But that didn't seem to matter. And the funny thing is, this never happened with the members of any of those "other" groups.
Don't get me wrong...I am NOT whining. I'm merely responding to the question. I'm still out here, I'm just not involved much any more.

[Chris]

I've read all the posts on this thread and each had valid points. It seems to me that WIX is absolutely a normal example of any society. Someone posts a question or pic or whatever and people respond. Some will give well thought out replies and others will muddle the entire thread. Nothing new or unusual there. Others get miffed by posts or responses and the thread may turn negative. It is our priveledge to simply stay away from any thread that either turns nasty or doesn't interest us any more. If we don't want negative threads to continue, don't respond and provide more ammo for the adversarial individuals. EVERYONE on this forum has certain buttons that when pushed can set them off but most give a well thought out civil response. Others not so much. But like I said, this forum has a very diverse group that is it's own liitle community. I think the Mods hands off response is good for the forum since it allows people to voice their opinions whether we may agree with them or not. I'm sure there times when Scott must sit back and think what the heck is going on but I admire his restraint. I'm not one of the oldtimers here but have been around for a couple of years. I started out as a lurker to see if I had anything relevant to add and it was a couple of months before I decided to post anything. Personally, I try to just post informational type stuff, pics and things that might interest others. I'm not into opinions or polls unless they are structured in such a way that they just gather information, not start a holy war. The WIXers I've met have been better in person than on the forum even if I don't agree with their posts. Also I think a small fee to post ($2 to $5) per month is reasonable. That's less than I spend on warbird magazines. I love the forum and check it out once a day or so. Some threads are great and others don't don't interest me but they may interest someone else. So keep the posts coming.

K, what have you done? ... 4 pages of nothing that has much to do with warbirds and now the thought of paying to post? UGH!! ... haha ... BTW, thanks for the link you e-mailed me, great stuff, now I have to find time to research that site. At least that will keep me away from trying to post something appropriate for this thread, which I'm at a loss to think of anything worthwhile. Knowing me and my reaction to my current load of meds I'll get your thread locked in a big hurry .. haha

I think if any member past, present or thinking about becoming a member just use me as an example of how not to post, reply, act, interact, smell, etc .... You'll all be just fine, ... boring!!, ... but fine ... haha

BTW, I'm just here for the attention, arguments, politics and post count .... Is there any other reason to be here?

Oh yah!!! and threats to leave when someone says my mother wore army boots .... that"s always fun too ...

[O.P.]

Heheheeeee



Stick a fork in this mother (the thread, that is),

It be done.

[Scott Rose]

Thanks everyone for taking the time to contribute to this post. It has given me a lot to think about. It won't be instituting a "pay to play" set up at this time (but the voluntary contributions are always welcome ) I am working on transitioning the forum from phpBB2 to phpBB3 which has some different features to it and will hopefully ad to the ability to moderate the forums.

I'm going to be taking some of the suggestions under consideration and I'll let you all know what the future holds.

Thanks.

[Zachary]

Whatever you do with the site Scott, please keep up the great work! I've made many new friends from my time on WIX - people I most likely never would have met otherwise. I cherish those friendships and the information that flows through this site. Sometimes you have to wade through some B.S. to find the good stuff, but that is true of any internet forum. Again, keep up the great work!

Zack

[Tulio]

Thanks everyone for taking the time to contribute to this post. It has given me a lot to think about. It won't be instituting a "pay to play" set up at this time (but the voluntary contributions are always welcome ) I am working on transitioning the forum from phpBB2 to phpBB3 which has some different features to it and will hopefully ad to the ability to moderate the forums.

I'm going to be taking some of the suggestions under consideration and I'll let you all know what the future holds.

Thanks.

It would be really neat, if you added the option of directly uploading images from our computers, versus having to store them elsewhere and copying the link.

There is a handy feature that will only show a thumb-sized image, and upon clicking on the image, you can see the picture on the "approved" size for the forum, thus avoiding those gargantuan photos that necessitate of a navigation bar to see them.


Saludos,


Tulio

[Cees Broere]

Hi all,

As one of the "old" participants of WIX (and WWW and vintage Aviator before that) I felt the need to post here.

I haven't posted on this forum for over three years (perhaps even more)
due to several reasons:

Having been involved with investigation and recovery of wartime wrecks in the Netherlands where I live I was at first drawn to the many posters who were likewise interested and where information was exchanged at a fast pace. Perhaps that is why Scott chose the name Warbird Information Echange These days it's more about flying aircraft and if a type is being restored to static condition it's is usually not really accepted that not any aircraft should fly but things should be balanced as well.
Many posters came from the UK and Europe while the smaller American contigent was less present, those that were around had a very European way of vision and at a certain time even projects were discussed to be started by WIX 'ers. These days the general feel of WIX is almost entirely about American matters (not to be taken as critisism mind you).
Over the years the "old" hands drifted from this forum such as Tony King, Christer, some died unfortunately, and I myself, being more into RAF aircraft was drawn towards the FlyPast forum where I still regularly participate in the various topics on a daily basis.

I admit for myself that the general atmosphere on this forum als seemed to change for the worse several years ago (that is my own opinion) as well as the topics were more about American aircraft types I am less interesed in. I also had some clashes with some participants which tended to get out of hand and of which I myself was partly to blame although in the end everyting went on as it should. As mentioned before people changed as well as interests do and I also became more involved with a reconstruction project of a HP Halifax cockpit, a type which rarely is discussed on this forum.

Of course it's a matter if you don't post you don't get any response or feedback but it's just life getting in the way I think as well or perhaps lazyness.

I check WIX once or twice a week and sometimes there are topics I am interested in but I admit I"m a lurker now. If people want to ask me things they knew where to find me.

Over the years Scott has done a fantastic job to keep WIX among one of the bestknown forii (or is it forums James?), ant it should be kept that way instead of having to read that he almost had enough of it. That would the worst thing to happen if the plug would have to be pulled. There is so much knowledge about here but also there are several other places where people can get their "fix".
In the end it's a matter of personal taste.

Cheers chaps.

Cees

Hi Cees

It's good to see a post from you here on WIX again. I guess I have done the opposite I post here on WIX and lurk on Flypast.

Good to here from you, any new projects ?

Steve