P-38 recovery update?

Dan K · **Posted:** Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:01 am

Django wrote:

This whole deal bums me out. Someone is going to piss around too long and it will be gone... forever.

But this is what TIGHAR does best: Being methodical.

Read the following from the TIGHAR website on the Jaluit TBD's:

http://www.tighar.org/Projects/Devastator/nextphase.htm

Back in 2006 they were completing what they call the "survey phase". Apparently 2008 still leaves us in the "permitting and evaluation phase". I have no idea what phases (or how many years worth of phases) come after this.

Pay special note to TIGHAR's stated purpose and objective with the Jaluit wreck: ...the project’s ultimate goal: to save a Devastator, and in the process, conduct the first true archaeological recovery and preservation of an intact historic aircraft from an undersea environment.

It would appear that TIME is of little consequence to TIGHAR. They have stated they are going to do things the "true archaeological" way--whatever that may actually mean. It appears that since the artifact is going to be preserved as-is, to them it doesn't matter if they bring it up in 2010 or 2050.

My guess is that this holds true for the P-38 as well. It doesn't matter how long the machine is buried. Whenever they bring it up it will be preserved and displayed as-is.

Why the rush? Why so serious?

Matt Gunsch · **Posted:** Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:08 am

Ken wrote:

TIGHAR's web site has this interesting quote:

"The result of those meetings was a consensus that the Royal Air Force Museum will move forward with planning to recover the aircraft using military assets. The museum’s intention is to conserve the P-38 at the Michael Beetham Conservation Center at RAF Cosford in the English Midlands and eventually exhibit the aircraft in “as found” condition at the main RAF Museum in London.

How soon the RAF Museum is able to put the necessary conservation preparations in place and organize the recovery remains to be seen. TIGHAR will assist in connecting the museum’s conservation staff with needed expertise. Meanwhile, Matt Rimmer will continue to monitor the aircraft’s situation and if it becomes uncovered before the RAF Museum is ready to begin recovery operations, TIGHAR will help provide security. Should the RAF Museum for any reason decide not to proceed with a recovery, TIGHAR will seek alternative solutions to recovering and preserving the aircraft."

Sounds like either A: They aren't driving the bus on this project or B: It's convenient to blame the RAF Museum for dragging their feet.

What's the truth?

FOUND, Secret video of TIGHAR's RIMMER

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7b35O8O_5ZM

Dan K · **Posted:** Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:17 am

Matt Gunsch wrote:

Ken wrote:

TIGHAR's web site has this interesting quote:

"The result of those meetings was a consensus that the Royal Air Force Museum will move forward with planning to recover the aircraft using military assets. The museum’s intention is to conserve the P-38 at the Michael Beetham Conservation Center at RAF Cosford in the English Midlands and eventually exhibit the aircraft in “as found” condition at the main RAF Museum in London.

How soon the RAF Museum is able to put the necessary conservation preparations in place and organize the recovery remains to be seen. TIGHAR will assist in connecting the museum’s conservation staff with needed expertise. Meanwhile, Matt Rimmer will continue to monitor the aircraft’s situation and if it becomes uncovered before the RAF Museum is ready to begin recovery operations, TIGHAR will help provide security. Should the RAF Museum for any reason decide not to proceed with a recovery, TIGHAR will seek alternative solutions to recovering and preserving the aircraft."

Sounds like either A: They aren't driving the bus on this project or B: It's convenient to blame the RAF Museum for dragging their feet.

What's the truth?

FOUND, Secret video of TIGHAR's RIMMER

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7b35O8O_5ZM

This one's better!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKsjaOqD ... re=related

Richard Woods · **Posted:** Wed Sep 03, 2008 11:35 am

Dan K wrote:

It would appear that TIME is of little consequence to TIGHAR. They have stated they are going to do things the "true archaeological" way--whatever that may actually mean. It appears that since the artifact is going to be preserved as-is, to them it doesn't matter if they bring it up in 2010 or 2050.

My guess is that this holds true for the P-38 as well. It doesn't matter how long the machine is buried. Whenever they bring it up it will be preserved and displayed as-is.

Why the rush? Why so serious?

Because by 2050 there won't be that much left to do an archaeological survey of... that's why.

Tangmere Mk II · **Posted:** Wed Sep 03, 2008 2:45 pm

Could we invite Mr Rimmer (or anyone out there from TIGHAR who is not busily engaged on one or other of their recovery "phases") to answer the questions he promised to answer.

Why so coy after a promise of answers, Mr Rimmer?

Canso42 · **Posted:** Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:09 pm

They're in the "Phase" phase.

Django · **Posted:** Wed Sep 24, 2008 7:59 am

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. It was all a dream, right?

ZRX61 · **Joined:** Tue Jun 14, 2005 10:16 am **Posts:** 2304

I'd like to suggest it gets painted up as Happy Jacks Dune Buggy

tom d. friedman · **Posted:** Wed Sep 24, 2008 4:35 pm

as for the devastator.......time is of the essense in this recovery!! it was made of lighter gauge aluminum than most pre- ww2 or ww2 planes, thus the ravages of a salt water environment takes it's toll faster on this ultra rare bird.

Django · **Posted:** Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:27 am

Well, it's 2009... :roll:

Dan K · **Posted:** Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:54 am

Django wrote:

Well, it's 2009... :roll:

2009 indeed--and another year in which the world's premier organization on historic aircraft recovery has yet to recover a single historic aircraft.

Apparently the news from TIGHAR (the world's premier organization on historic... oh, never mind) is that the P-38 shall remain buried in sand until they can figure out how to pay to dig her up. Just remember: The old girl is perfectly preserved right where she is. No hurry. Would anyone like to donate? *sigh*

http://www.tighar.org/Projects/P38/welshplans.htm

Django · **Posted:** Mon May 11, 2009 6:00 pm

What a shame. Does anyone know if it is even there still? How do we know it didn't just wash away in a storm?

Richard Woods · **Posted:** Tue May 12, 2009 4:19 am

Hi all,

I've been watching this for a while, and getting wound up again... you probably all saw my thoughts on the initial thread.

I want a bit of advice from some pilots ('cause I'm not one) when you are putting an aircraft down in the surf, would you be aiming the aircraft parallel to the beach, or up onto it? My bet is parallel.

I know roughly where this aircraft is; being no more than two miles or so up the beach from RAF LLanbedr, I've been scouring google earth and there is one or two targets that are larger than the rest of the marine growth in the surf that are in about the right area. They're also the same kind of colour as the kite shot and some of the backgrounds match up with TIGHARS photos.

If you wanted to be a real swine and not do any legwork, you could request information on the aircraft under the Freedom of Information Act... but hey, a couple of days on a Welsh beach is fun if the weather holds.

I believe several applications can be made at once for any one site; so we'll see how that goes. I've no problem approaching the local council, if necessary I'll drag my father on board as he deals with them a lot on planning applications and such he knows how they work.

If TIGHAR are interested in saving the aircraft, not just the fanfare, they won't be too worried by competition; if anything it should force their hand a bit and give them a wake up pill.

I'm going to book some time off work... and go find me a P-38. I've got my IOU note for TIGHAR written out...

Ric

Jim MacDonald · **Posted:** Tue May 12, 2009 4:36 am

Go get her, Ric.

Of course, TIGHAR will probably say that you're one of those BAAAADDD people who just want to disrespectfully & unethically rip pieces off her & have no concern for the history involved. :roll:

Mac

Django · **Posted:** Tue May 12, 2009 2:53 pm

Best of luck Ric!

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