Hawker Typhoon

[DaveM2]

Hmmmm, so very little of it is actual Typhoon if that is the case, perhaps it would be more appropriate to call the project 'Tempest'

Dave

[chippie51]

I believe Ted's former bits form a small part of the holding of parts involved. Interestingly, I understand that Ted's Tempest cockpits were "borrowed but not returned" by someone a few years ago. If anyone knows where they it would be interesting to hear.

George

[chippie51]

I can't remember what the serial is, but if I recall correctly it's in the SW prefix range. You know all I know - for now. More as I find things out.

George

[L2Driver]

Thanks to all who've contributed to this thread!! I've been fascinated with the Typhoon since I was a kid. A superb aircraft (IMO, anyway!) that really gets left out of most discussions about air ops in the ETO.

Mudge: The Tiffie was considered pretty roomy by British standards -- at least for single-seaters. Certainly they leave much to be desired by today's standards. Lots of room compared to a Spit.

History seems to have maligned the Typhoon and given it a less-than-deserved bad reputation. Certainly there were issues with the engines -- which were rushed into production without the same testing/development given the RR Merlin. Also early problems with the airframe -- the elevator mass balancer issue probably being the most infamous. Also a pretty lackluster performer as a fighter at altitude.

The above being said, once relegated to the ground attack role, the Tiffie was (IMO) superb. Lots of load-carrying capacity and certainly lots of clout from the 4 x 20mm cannon. From the wartime pilots I've spoken with, the aircraft was rock steady in a power dive and generally well behaved. The airframe was extremely robust and able to absorb tremendous damage.

Forced landings, early-on due to engine failure and (later) from combat damage, are usually described as uneventful. The 7-ton airplane pretty much flattened anything in its path, shedding parts (and energy) along the way. By the time the dust settled, it was usually just a matter of unstrapping and stepping out.

The full scale glass fibre Hawker Typhoon replica is at the Memorial de la Paix, Caen - France-

One source I found said that it had been reconstructed from some original components. The markings are:

BR*S
JP656
184 Sqd

Here are a couple of shots I took of this replica in 2006:






Dave G

[Hal B]

Feel free to flame me (as I realize I'm toying with sacrilege here), but in the absence of a Napier Sabre why couldn't a substitute engine be used to get a Tiffy airborne?

If Allisons are being used to make Yaks and Fw-190D's go today, couldn't a Tiffy get airborne with, say, a Griffon?

(Asbestos suit on)

Well, maybe TWO Allisons, tied together

[gregv]

Forced landings, early-on due to engine failure and (later) from combat damage, are usually described as uneventful. The 7-ton airplane pretty much flattened anything in its path, shedding parts (and energy) along the way. By the time the dust settled, it was usually just a matter of unstrapping and stepping out.

Pierre Closterman wrote about his Typhoon forced-landing experiences in "The Big Show", and they sounded downright hellish; maybe he had a bad time with it? Or maybe they were all with the later Tempest, which was somehow different in this respect?

I'll have to dig that book out and give it a re-read.

great thread!

greg v.

[RMAllnutt]

Feel free to flame me (as I realize I'm toying with sacrilege here), but in the absence of a Napier Sabre why couldn't a substitute engine be used to get a Tiffy airborne?

If Allisons are being used to make Yaks and Fw-190D's go today, couldn't a Tiffy get airborne with, say, a Griffon?

(Asbestos suit on)

Well, maybe TWO Allisons, tied together

You'd never get it certified in the UK with something like that. I may be wrong, but I cannot recall the CAA ever certifying aircraft (at least warbirds) with powerplants other than those for which they were originally designed. Cases in point being the LA-9, Flugwerke Fw-190's, Yak-11 conversions etc.

It might work here in the US, but I can't imagine anyone going to the trouble, and incredible expense, of twinning a couple of V-1710's. If that was your intent, it might make more sense to go with an Allison W-3420... which is essentially what you were going for. It's a very rare engine, but Kermit has a couple.

Cheers,
Richard

[airnutz]

Feel free to flame me (as I realize I'm toying with sacrilege here), but in the absence of a Napier Sabre why couldn't a substitute engine be used to get a Tiffy airborne?

If Allisons are being used to make Yaks and Fw-190D's go today, couldn't a Tiffy get airborne with, say, a Griffon?

(Asbestos suit on)

Ackkk..Akkkkk..cough...cough..choke..(the unintelligible utterances of livid apoplexy)... ...before the axe
comes out. Action is so much more effective than words..


But all joking aside Dan, yes they could do that. But they could also do that if the
Sabre project doesn't bear fruit. On the surface of George's info it appears there is an
owner who's 1st priority is the resurrection of the Napier Sabre...A daunting if not a magnificent
obsession! My kinda guy! It appears he wants the whole tamale. Why build a Ferrari and then
turnabout and stuff a Chevy or Cadillac engine in it if you obsess over the "real deal"?

If he can't get the fix he's looking for....he may not be interested in doing the rest of the
Typhoon, but I'm sure if he comes to those crossroads...the remains of the project(s) will find a worthy home.

Today is really an amazing day. A gent who is a keeper of the Sabre flame gathering the
neccesary bits and data in order to bring the beast back to the air...not just another blah day of a
"Kermit maybe someday it will taxi" day. And if the collecter is successful with the Sabre project
then Kermits Tempest may do substantially more than taxi.

And if ya just gotta have Grifon in a Hawker..getcha one of the Fury/Tempest II progeny and stuff
away..the factory did.

Last edited by airnutz on Thu Nov 01, 2007 11:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.

[sgt hawk]

Guys I am amazed. The info I'm getting here far exceeds the request. I'm new to this forum so bear with me. I'm an old Vietnam vet 11b40 mos (thats military occupation speacialty light weapons infantry or as we used to say 11b "bullet catcher") I'm partial to air support and this aircraft I believe was on par with the thunderbolt (p-47) in WWII but doesen't get the recognition. I can say without doubt that the jet engine folks discarded these types for the zoom and boom types until reality sunk in (as far as the US was concernd) until the A-10 Warthog. No one, and I mean no one, understands the need for air support when your locked in and need it "danger close" like a grunt. It's gotta be low, slow and pummpin lead so you can pull your people back and as we used to say, let em "get some"".The potential for these airplanes in conflicts after WWII (Malaysia,Korea) were there,but they weren't. so sad. let's see if we can help get some recognition.
Greg

[Firebird]

Talking of Napier-Sabre's then, I seem to recall form many years ago (got to be 12-15?), when Kermit's Tempest V rebuild project was featured in a Warbirds Worldwide, than he did have a suitable engine and that it was going to be rebuilt to airworthy condition by Ricardo Engineering.........

[chippie51]

I wouldn't get your hopes up in seeing a complete, or even fairly incomplete Typhoon together in only a few years time. I understand it will be a while before any decision is made as to whether the project is viable, and even then it will probably change hands before the main work starts. The current focus is on a "gathering excercise", trying to pull enough bits together to make a project viable for someone to complete at some stage in the future.

George

[Flat 12x2]

.........he did have a suitable engine and that it was going to be rebuilt to airworthy condition by Ricardo Engineering.........

First off I LOVE engines & well the Napier-Sabre , the most powerful aircraft piston engine . 3,000 hp from 2,238 cu.in (36.7 ltrs )compared to similar hp from a P&W 4360 at almost double the capacity.
Have a look at my avtar & WIX name (the Sabre was in effect 2 flat 12's each with its own crankshaft )
Firebird
I work with an ex Ricardo's (next to Shoreham right ?) employee , we've talked about them rebuilding & running up a Merlin there , I'll ask to see if he knows anything about a Sabre there.

Last edited by Flat 12x2 on Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

[Flat 12x2]

Hmmmm, so very little of it is actual Typhoon if that is the case, perhaps it would be more appropriate to call the project 'Tempest'

Dave

They look very similar but IIRC are quite different, so you wouldn't be able to use much if anything from a tempest to rebuild a Typhoon ?

[dhfan]

The fuselage of the Tempest is basically a Typhoon with a 21" extension in front of the cockpit to house a fuel tank.

Whether they stayed similar enough for parts to be interchangable by the time they went into production I don't know.