CAF P-82 Ownership resolved???

AirJimL2 · **Posted:** Fri Feb 23, 2007 7:27 am

mustangdriver wrote:

The Huricane was a gift from the RAF.

No. I'm pretty sure the Hurricane was a trade deal. However, the Spitfire XVI was a gift from the RAF. It was made redundant when either the Spit XI or Spit Vc (both trade deals) were added to the collection and it was traded off.

Jim

Shay · **Posted:** Fri Feb 23, 2007 8:11 am

bdk wrote:

Shay wrote:

Perhaps if Mr. Cruise funded the "F-15 Reporter" recovery for the NMUSAF...

OK, I'll bite. What F-15 Reporter?

mustangdriver wrote:

I think he was being funny.

I was being slightly facetious, but not entirely.

The F-15 Reporter I was referring to was the one up in Greenland:

Quote:

40. Mar 1964 F-15B 6106N4638W Near BGBW No 650 intact

for those who might not know what a Reporter looks like:

As far as I'm aware it is the only one known in existance.

But my point was that NMUSAF has been known to make deals for aircraft they would want. "Get a Big Enough Carrot An They'll Bite". And not to mention the current regime at the NMUSAF seems to be extremely ambitious in expanding the collection. Again "Everything Has a Price" Not that I actually think Mr. Cruise would fund such a venture to recover an aircraft(would be nice though) to get the F-82. How many aircraft has the Museum shuffled around and traded to get certain aircraft in their collection. Answer: an overwhelming majority of them.

Regarding the XVI Spit TE330 apparently it was once part of the "Battle Of Britian Memorial Flight" And was gifted not to the NMUSAF but to the Smithsonian. And obiviously was traded to the NMUSAF and then again to NZ. Which is surprising because most of the Smithsionian aircraft at the NMUSAF are considered "On-Loan" using the NMUSAF's own words.

there are hands shaking somwhere.

Shay
____________
Semper Fortis

AirJimL2 · **Posted:** Fri Feb 23, 2007 8:18 am

Shay wrote:

And was gifted not to the NMUSAF but to the Smithsonian.

That is interesting...as I was told it was gifted to the USAF Academy.

Jim

Jerry O'Neill · **Posted:** Fri Feb 23, 2007 8:23 am

Museum dealings can be quite interesting. NEAM had a surplus Sikorsky H-5 with ambulance "Doors" for carrying wounded soldiers. It was in good shape, but in storage. Kaman Aircraft was in the early stages of design for the K-MAX helicopter and needed an already proven airframe for system and flight testing for certification. It would save them millions if they could get an H-43 Huskie to use.
NEAM also had a Huskie on indoor display, but it had never been restored. NEAM owned the H-5 but the H-43 was on loan from the NMUSAF. They deal made was the H-5 was traded to the NMUSAF for the complete and clear title to the H-43. THe H-43 was in turn, sold to Kaman aircraft by NEAM with the provision that it would be returned for some tiny amount and placed back on display when fully restored and it's usefulness in the K-MAX certification was done. That money helped in the erection of much needed buildings for the museum, we eventually got the Huskie back, restored, with a nice Kaman Aircraft display to boot!
The H-5 was donated or loaned to a museum in Korea where it is now fully restored and on display.
It was a great deal for all involved and rather interesting.
Jerry

mustangdriver · **Posted:** Fri Feb 23, 2007 8:38 am

You guys might be right on the Hurricane. There are pics of it being offloaded from a C-5 on display with the aircraft. It is pretty cool. The museum does not usuall trade aircraft that are given as gifts outside of their collection, but there are exceptions. The museum also has two Spitfires on display, so that might of had something to do with it. It is amazing how much I have learned about the very museum I work at, frm this page.

Steve · **Posted:** Fri Feb 23, 2007 8:45 pm

I have never seen an F-15 reporter, never heard of it. Had I seen one flyover the house i would have thought it was nothing more then a P-61 going over and went back to work
Steve

Chad Veich · **Posted:** Fri Feb 23, 2007 10:14 pm

Steve wrote:

Had I seen one flyover the house i would have thought it was nothing more then a P-61 going over and went back to work

Nothing more than a P-61! Wouldn't that have been enough to keep you outside gawking?!!! :shock:

marine air · **Posted:** Fri Feb 23, 2007 10:45 pm

Yes, the Smithsonian and AFM do sell and trade aircraft from their collection. I saw in trade- a-plane a few years ago the HA-1112 Buchon and a couple of other aircraft (C-131 Samaritan) that were "surplus to their needs."
The Smithsonian, at one time just had to have "Conquest 1" which held the world speed record for piston engines." SO they traded that highly modified Bearcat for the XF8F-1 that Howard Pardue now owns. I think a couple more aircraft were involved in the deal.
Another trade the Smithsonian"just had to have" a Northrop Gamma for the main display so they did a multiple trade to the EAA that included the XP-51 going to the EAA. Oh, and Kermit's deal on the Duck and the P-43A. There have been many more, typically when someone doesn't want to freely donate their aircraft.
Anything is possible, they just have to be "motivated" to want to do the deal.

Steve T · **Posted:** Fri Feb 23, 2007 10:50 pm

Can't really speak for any of the other Steves on WIX...but I think he's being facetious...

Course, maybe not. I keep seeing a Lancaster go over, and it doesn't interrupt my workday much...

Re the Reporter, very cool that there could be another one out there. I'd thought the civilian one that crashed back in, what, the early 70s?, had been the last example.

Re Spit TE330, either the RAF or the Air Ministry donated it, to commemorate the Eagle Squadron volunteers of 1940-41. (For decades it wore BoB-esque brown/green/Sky camo, which a XVI wouldn't have.)

Re the Hurricane, I don't think the RAF had anything to do with that one; it was a composite airframe based on Canadian-built Mk.XII components, initially restored in Texas and subsequently worked on again elsewhere.

S.

bdk · **Joined:** Sun May 02, 2004 1:16 am **Posts:** 11336

Steve T wrote:

Re the Hurricane, I don't think the RAF had anything to do with that one; it was a composite airframe based on Canadian-built Mk.XII components, initially restored in Texas and subsequently worked on again elsewhere.

Is that the one that was on display at Cavanaugh?

jamesintucson · **Joined:** Sat Jan 29, 2005 1:42 am **Posts:** 546

bdk wrote:

Steve T wrote:

Re the Hurricane, I don't think the RAF had anything to do with that one; it was a composite airframe based on Canadian-built Mk.XII components, initially restored in Texas and subsequently worked on again elsewhere.

Is that the one that was on display at Cavanaugh?

Nope. That one is at Pima now but it came from the same pile of parts.

James

bdk · **Joined:** Sun May 02, 2004 1:16 am **Posts:** 11336

Shay wrote:

The F-15 Reporter I was referring to was the one up in Greenland:

Quote:

40. Mar 1964 F-15B 6106N4638W Near BGBW No 650 intact

Please consider me a skeptic.

Joe Baugher says the F-15As were all struck off charge in 1949 and 1950 including the air tanker which was sold off from NACA Moffet Field as an EF-15C modified from an F-15A.

http://home.att.net/~jbaugher/1945.html

Were any F-15Bs built?

Who has a copy of the accident report for this aircraft?

Shay · **Posted:** Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:24 am

bdk wrote:

Please consider me a skeptic.

Who has a copy of the accident report for this aircraft?

I don't know about the report but "YOU" were the source from where I got this information from

:

http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=7695&highlight=lost+greenland+reporter

bdk wrote:

Your lucky day! From our long lost friend Indiana Tony:

http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/va ... um=1003252

Quote:

Posted by Indiana Tony on 14:21:42 12/2/2001 from 62.30.192.1:
Table 1: Aircraft wrecks in Greenland. Incomplete List.
1. May 1942 Lockheed B-34 Ventura 6540N03740W By Angmagssalik Went through ice; crew rescued
2. Jun 1942 Boeing B-17 Fortress 6517N04948W Ice cap S of BGSF My Gal Sal
3. Jun 1942 B-17 6831N5250W at Egedesminde Damaged in safety landing; salvaged
4. Jul 1942 B-17 (2)Lockheed P-38 Lightning (6) 6520N04020W Ice cap by Comanche Bay One P-38 salvaged
5. Jul 1942 North American AT-6 Texan 6128N04445W By Nordbosø Col. Wimsatt, BW1. Two crew rescued
6. Nov 1942 Douglas C-53 Skytrain Not located Observed over Skjoldungen
7. Nov 1942 B-17 6517N4118W Ice cap wreck rescued
8. Nov 1942 Douglas A-20 Havoc 6121N4222W
9. Jan 1943 Consolidated PBY-5A Catalina 6108N4738W
10. 03 Mar 1943 PBY-5A BGJH Near Julianehaab. Found 3/16/43 VB-126. All ten sob dead. #02977 enroute Argentia to BW1
11. Apr 1943 A-20B 6052N4604W burned
12. May 1943 North American B-25 Mitchell 6025N4316W Crash landed
13. Nov 1943 Beech AT-7B Kansan 6538N5013W Wreckage scattered
14. Apr 1944 B-17 6324N4126W
15. Oct 1944 Douglas C-47 Skytrain 6110N4340W
16. Grumman J2F-4 Duck 6508N4100W
17. Feb 1947 Boeing B-29 Superfortress 8014N6009W On frozen lake Intact. Crew rescued
18. Dec 1948 B-17, C-47, Waco CG-15 (2) 6245N4555W Intact. Gliders intact
19. May 1951 De Havilland Mosquito 6013N4412W Wreck washed ashore
20. May 1951 Mosquito BGPC Near Prince Christian Sound
21. Sep 1952 C-47 6122N4852W Sank
22. Sep 1952 Handley Page Hastings 7807N3810W North Ice L-510 RAF. Tail visible. Fuselage used as depot.
23. Jun 1953 North American F-86 Sabre (2) BGJH Near Julianehaab: approach BW-1 Collided; one fatal; one eject
24. Jul 1953 C-47 7810N7208W
25. Feb 1954 C-47 6108N4405W
26. Apr 1954 PBY-5A 7802N7605W Burned
27. Apr 1955 SC-47, F-86 6108N4405W
28. 25 Oct 1956 Northrop C-119 Boxcar 7659N5615W 2.5 nm grid N from N-34 Site 51-8032A silver,
29. 19 Dec 1956 Grumman SA-16A Albatross 7623N6757W 15 nm SE TAB 51-5288A rescue a/c; disintegrated scattered in 1300' line
30. 19 Dec 1956 Sikorsky SH-19B Chickasaw 7623N6810W 52-7551A silver/rescue; resting on side
31. 29 Jul 1957 d. H. Canada L-20 Beaver 7636N6308W 65 nm E Tuto Wings torn back
32. 25 Nov 1957 Northrop F-89 Scorpion 7636N6738W Near TAB Exploded. No identifiable remains
33. 21 Jul 1958 Douglas C-54 Skymaster 7947N4215W Wreck used for target practice
34. 24 Jul 1958 Piasecki H-21 Workhorse 7708N5930W 534363. Silver/rescue; wreck scattered
35. 26 Aug 1959 SH-21 7641N6910W Near TAB 534372. Silver/rescue; wreckage dropped in bay
36. 14 Dec 1962 Convair F-102 Delta Dagger Unknown Last contact 25 nm SE Thule AB
37. 14 Dec 1962 H-3 Unknown Vicinity Thule Likely an H-43 Huskie
38. 17 Dec 1962 C-47 East of Camp Tuto
39. Apr 1963 PBY 6045N4807W RDAF nr 865
40. Mar 1964 F-15B 6106N4638W Near BGBW No 650 intact
41. May 1964 PBY 7245N5630W RDAF nr 867
42. 28 Feb 1967 Aero Commander 6520N4210W N6313U intact
43. Aug 1967 Aero Commander 6420N4240W N362U broke up
44. 21 Jan 1968 Boeing B-52 Stratofortress 7631N6320W Ca 7 nm N Thule Burned, sank
45. Dec 1968 Lockheed T-33A Silver Star 6700N5028W S shore of lake by BGSF
46. Dec 1968 T-33A 6655N5037W
47. Dec 1968 T-33A 6706N5042W Scattered red pieces visible
48. 19 Jun 1971 Bell H-13K Sioux 6256N4949W Departed L/L hdg 270 dest. 6313N5033W HB-XAU
49. 29 Aug 1976 Lockheed C-141 Starlifter BGSF runway Burned on rwy

And here is what BGBW is:

http://gc.kls2.com/airport/BGBW Great Circle Airport Narsarsuaq, Greenland

Tony and I each get 1/4 interest in whatever is salvaged from this list, OK?
_________________
Yeah, well, I feel for you, but I'm consumed with apathy.

It would be nice if this was fact. Perhaps you could verify this with your friend Indiana Tony?

Shay
____________
Semper Fortis

doorstop · **Joined:** Wed Jan 31, 2007 4:32 pm **Posts:** 17

Didn't see that in FlyPast, but the ownership issue has not been resolved.

Miscue · **Posted:** Thu Aug 02, 2007 7:34 am

I find it very amusing that no one has mentioned the way the CAF's P-82 lawsuit came about. The CAF (without informing the restoration Squadron membership) basically swung a deal to trade the P-82 and the wreckage of the P-38 "Scatterbrain Kid" to someone for an airworthy P-38. Then the USAF got involved saying that if the CAF ever decided to get rid of the P-82, it was to go back into USAF inventory. This was an agreement issued when the CAF aquired the P-82 from the USAF when it was a gate guard at Lackland AFB in San Antonio, TX. From what I have heard, the CAF has some sort of ownership paperwork.
Hopefully, the issue can be resolved soon and then whomever owns the bird can get her back in the air.

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CAF P-82 Ownership resolved???

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