MSP to lose their Blackbird??

[Randy Haskin]

The thing that gets to me about the NMUSAF guys and the USAF in general is the fact that they had thousands of warbirds which THEY destroyed and now we have so few left.

You can't blame the current USAF for things that were done 60 years ago.

[mustangdriver]

I agree with me109 on alot of that. I know that there are issues where someone pulls a Corsair out of a lake, and right away the naval Museum says that they still own it. As far as wreck recovery goes, I think as long as there are nor crew member's bodies still on board or ordanance, then one should be able to have at it. The ONLY time I think the national museums should step in is if the aircraft is not being treated right which was my point with the Memphis Belle talk. As for this A-12, I support leaving it where it was. Now if it indeed is going to go outdoors on a pole, then I am really angered. The national museums can sometimes act in the aircraft's best interest. But sometimes they act on political interest. That is not cool. Rick's case with his F-105 was a good case of that. There was no reason foro the national museum to do what they did. AND for that they were wrong. Just as t hey are by taking this A-12. Moving the Belle? No way. They did the right thing by plaing her in Wright-Pat.

[RickH]

I wish it were MY F105. Don't know where I would park it if it was. It's longer than my driveway.

I am just one of several folks who are working this issue.

Rather than argue a specific aircraft's merits for staying or going from any museum or organization, I'll just say that I believe that there is a culture within the govt agencies and the National Museums that makes them think that they have the backing of the resources of the Federal Govt., DoD, whatever, and that they can do or say anything to achieve their goals. I would like to be part of the team that proves them wrong.

As for the Belle issue, myself and others believe that once Metcalf decided he wanted the Belle in Dayton, that there is nothing those folks could say or do that would have satisfied the NMUSAF so that it would stay in Memphis. Granted, the folks in Memphis made it easy for the NMUSAF to do what they did but once the decision was made, it was gone.

[Kos]

The why did the NMUSAF reposess the TF-102 and the A-7D from the Yankee Air Museum? They were being cared for. They had programs in place for upkeep. They were not neglected, nor had they been vandalized. There was a plan in place to place them indoors as the new museum is built. They were both sitting outside since they had been built, 40-50 years ago, so another year or two was going to be a problem? No, they were in good shape, so they were ripe for the picking.

I've been told not to voice my opinion of the NMUSAF, and its attitude toward the Yankee Air Museum since the fire two years ago, but some things are just too obvious...

[RickH]

Kos, that's part of the problem. Museums are running scared. They are afraid that if they speak ill of the big bad wolf that bad things will happen to them. I assert that bad things are happening anyway so what is the problem with telling the truth about things ?

The only way to affect change is to confront it, not to ignore it and hope that by remaining silent maybe they will go after someone elses aircraft and leave you alone.

[Warbirdnerd]

It looks like the fight for this bird is not quite over:

Posted on Tue, Jan. 30, 2007



Bill would keep spy plane in Minnesota

FREDERIC J. FROMMER
Associated Press

WASHINGTON - Minnesota Sens. Norm Coleman and Amy Klobuchar introduced legislation Tuesday aimed at helping the Minnesota Air Guard Museum retain a 1960s spy plane that is slated for transfer to CIA headquarters in Langley, Va.

Last week, Air Force workers began disassembling the A-12 Blackbird, which has been at the museum since 1991. A team of Minnesota volunteers had rescued the 99-foot-long plane from the scrap heap in California and restored it, including a rare refurbishment of its cockpit instruments.

The bill by Coleman, a Republican, and Klobuchar, a Democrat, would transfer ownership of the plane to the Minnesota Air National Guard Historical Foundation, which runs the museum. It would also require the U.S. Air Force to finance the plane's reassembly.

The Blackbird, and many other retired military aircraft, are considered "on-loan" from the U.S. Air Force Museum, which maintains control over display and has the authority to move them. Last November, the Air Force recalled the plane to give to the CIA for the agency's 60th anniversary celebration this year.

The plane had been on loan to the 133rd Airlift Wing of the Minnesota Air National Guard at the Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport; the Minnesota museum itself is not certified for the loan of Air Force historical property.

"Volunteers throughout Minnesota have devoted many years and extensive resources to restoring and maintaining this plane, which has become the centerpiece of the Minnesota National Guard Museum," Coleman said in a statement.

"Minnesotans literally rescued this historic plane from the scrap heap," Klobuchar said in a statement. "Hundreds of Minnesotans devoted countless volunteer hours and resources to restoring this plane. Our government should respect and encourage this kind of volunteer initiative."

Minnesota House members were also working on companion legislation.

Messages left after business hours Tuesday with officials from the Air Force Museum were not returned.

But in a letter to Coleman last month, Lt. Col. Michael Fleck, who works in the Air Force's Office of Legislative Liaison, wrote that given the plane's origins in the CIA's "OXCART" program, "it is most appropriate that one of the few remaining examples be allocated to them for memorialization." He also said the plane didn't have a historical association with the 133rd Airlift Wing.

The A-12 Blackbird was able to fly at more than three times the speed of sound, according to James Goodall, who has written five books on the Blackbird and led the effort to restore the plane.

While serving with the 133rd Airlift Wing nearly 20 years ago, Goodall arranged to get the plane, which had been retired in 1968, using two cargo airplanes to ship it from California. He said he raised $27,000 for the effort. He then led volunteers who helped restore the plane, and, he said, purchased and scrounged instruments for the cockpit. Minnesota companies also helped with the effort.

"I spent almost two full years to get it ready for public display, then another five years maintaining it," said Goodall, who now lives near Seattle but still has family in Minnesota. "I personally painted it by hand three times."

"It's been very, very painful," he said of the Air Force's decision to move the plane. But Goodall, who has helped rally opposition to the Air Force, said he was hopeful the legislation could save the plane for the Minnesota museum.

Richard W. Wiessner, a museum foundation board member, said that although parts of the plane have been removed, most of it is still intact. He was excited about the legislation.

"I think it's great, but can they get it through both houses of Congress and get it signed into law?" asked Wiessner, a retired lieutenant colonel in the Air National Guard and U.S. Air Force.

Found it here:http://www.belleville.com/mld/belleville/news/breaking_news/16582885.htm

Those of you that would like to show your support please send Norm Coleman and Amy Klobuchar an email.
Norm's Website:
http://coleman.senate.gov/
Amy's website:
http://www.amyklobuchar.com/

[Shay]

Neat if not a sad picture
http://www.startribune.com/10036/rich_media/957631.html

Workers from Worldwide Aircraft Recovery swept snow off the Minnesota Air Guard Museum’s Lockheed A-12 reconnaissance plane, restored by Minnesota volunteers, on Wednesday before beginning to dismantle it for shipment to CIA headquarters in Virginia.

I wonder if work has stopped in lue of the bill working it's way through the houses

http://www.startribune.com/462/story/957339.html

Shay
____________
Semper Fortis

[RickH]

Not if the F-105 situation is any indicator. They actually fast tracked the demil and subsequent transfer and removal from AMARC. Word was that it was rushed to keep it out of CF hands. A letter was sent asking them to hold off on the demil until the situation could be reviewed by outside parties and eventually resolved.

[Warbirdnerd]

Neat if not a sad picture
http://www.startribune.com/10036/rich_media/957631.html

Workers from Worldwide Aircraft Recovery swept snow off the Minnesota Air Guard Museum’s Lockheed A-12 reconnaissance plane, restored by Minnesota volunteers, on Wednesday before beginning to dismantle it for shipment to CIA headquarters in Virginia.

I wonder if work has stopped in lue of the bill working it's way through the houses

http://www.startribune.com/462/story/957339.html

Shay
____________
Semper Fortis

As far as I know the disassembly of the Blackbird is still going on.
I bet the gang from Worldwide Aircraft Recovery wishes the USAFM would have sent them for one of the Bama birds, the temp here has not been above ZERO much since they started...

[mustangdriver]

I don't know if this will change anyone's thought on this, but I visited a friend that is an employee of the agency. He introduced me to a frined who is going to have something to do with the Blackbird. THe aircraft is not going to be out side. It is going to be indoors. They did not tell me where. It is going to be on display temporarily while a facility is being readied for it. That is all that I was told.

[Warbirdnerd]

Another Update:

Spy buffs target Blackbird 'hijacking'
Plane's allies strive to rescue aircraft as CIA begins moving it
BY DAVE ORRICK
Pioneer Press
Who do you think gets interested when headlines warn the CIA is "hijacking" a spy plane from a group of veterans in Minnesota?

Spy buffs, of course, who decry the federal government's controversial decision to dis-assemble a rare A-12 "Blackbird" spy plane at the Minnesota Air Guard Museum and move it to the CIA headquarters in Virginia.

For several weeks, Minnesota's congressional delegation has been trying to come to the rescue of the low-budget museum, and now they have a new cadre of allies.

Among them is John Lear. His qualifications include accomplished pilot on 17 years of CIA missions, passionate lover of the Cold War-era A-12 and SR-71 spy planes, and son of Learjet founder Bill Lear. He's a sort of nexis for an eclectic network of pilots, aviation historians, former CIA operatives and folks whose Google alerts include phrases like "Area 51" and "Operation Oxcart." He has no ties to Minnesota, but he said Thursday he's taking up the fight.

"This is a royal rip-off," he said in a phone interview from his home in Las Vegas. "I'm going to pull every string I can."

One such string is his late father's longtime support of Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada. "I know he's busy, but my father was always his largest contributor, and I've never asked him for much." Officials with Reid couldn't be reached for comment Thursday.

A measure introduced last month by Minnesota Senators Norm Coleman and Amy Klobuchar would order the Air Force to return the plane to the local museum, which is near Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport, and put it back together. It also would make the museum's foundation the plane's owner, replacing its current status as a loaner from the Air Force. The bill's future remains unclear. It's currently awaiting action in the Armed Services Committee.

Lear also can muster conspiracy theorists on the Internet and talk radio. He's hoping to go grassroots, encouraging his listeners and fans to write, e-mail or otherwise "bug" their elected members of Congress over what he's pitching as an injustice.

"As taxpayers, we paid for this plane," he said. "They can't just hijack it."

We taxpayers may have paid tens of millions of dollars each for the 100 or so sleek supersonic Blackbirds, but we won't know how much it's going to cost to move the one here in the Twin Cities to Langley, Va., if the CIA has anything to say about it.

An Air Force spokesman told the Pioneer Press the CIA was paying for it, and here's what CIA spokesman Paul Gimigliano said: "Because CIA contracts as a rule contain a nonpublicity clause, I cannot discuss specific terms. But this arrangement was prepared with great care and involves an experienced firm."

U.S. Rep. Betty McCollum has written two letters to Air Force Secretary Michael Wynne asking about the cost of the move and has had no response, her office said Thursday.

Jim Goodall, who's written five books on the Blackbird, estimates it'll cost "at least $300,000." Goodall, a retired master sergeant from Minnesota's Air National Guard, is more responsible than anyone else for transporting and refurbishing the plane from mothball status in California in 1991.

Apparent CIA contractors were cutting the black fuselage in half Thursday, to the dismay of museum board member Dick Weissner. "It's ugly now," said Weissner.

The decision to take Minnesota's only Blackbird was made by the National Museum of the U.S. Air Force after the CIA asked for one in time for its 60th anniversary this year. Museum spokeswoman Sarah Swan said the choice was in part because it had "no significant relevance to (the Minnesota Guard) or the local communities."

Goodall counters that three of the six CIA A-12 pilots have family in Minnesota, and many of its components were made here by Honeywell, Rosemont and 3M.

Dave Orrick can be reached at dorrick@pioneerpress.com or 651-228-2171.

Ben Garvin, Pioneer Press

Found it here:
http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincitie ... 762795.htm

[Warbirdnerd]

Double post...

Last edited by Warbirdnerd on Fri Feb 23, 2007 10:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Shay]

Apparent CIA contractors were cutting the black fuselage in half Thursday, to the dismay of museum board member Dick Weissner.

That's horrible. This was the best plan these "Professionals" could come up with?

Utterly stupid.

An injunction to stop work should have been filed.

Shay
____________
Semper Fortis

[mustangdriver]

Guys, I doubt that the aircraft was actually cut in half, more like taken apart.

[rwdfresno]

Regarding the Memphis Belle issue: This debate is a little bit hard for me because I think the NMUSAF is a pretty first rate outfit and I think that the Belle was neglected in a rather sickening manner for a long time but I can see both sides of this story. The city of Memphis purchased the aircraft from the USAF who was planning on scrapping the aircraft. It was sitting at Altus, Oklahoma where it was scheduled for reclamation. If it wasn't for the mayor of Memphis, Walter Chandler who purchased the aircraft for $350 it would have been a beer can or window frame by now. Back then the USAF could care less about the aircraft. The mistake that was made by another Memphis mayor who donated it back to the USAF. That was what gave the NMUSAF the power to move the aircraft. If the city of Memphis hadn't donated the aircraft back to the USAF then I would say the NMUSAF should just butt out but the aircraft became under their responsibility once it was donated back. As far as the rest of the wrecks that are "abandoned" on public land, if you are willing to spend the time and money to recover it, you should be able to do as you please with it. If it is on private property then it should belong to the property owner.

You can't blame the current USAF for things that were done 60 years ago.

They are still doing it to this day. The Navy is sinking ships to make artificial reefs, if you are lucky enough to squeeze anything out of the Air Force or Army it is usually under the condition that you can't fly it, operate it, or run it. They destroy to motor mounts, cut and demil the aircraft so it can never be flown again. You can't import historical items like armor etc from other countries. As far as the government is concerned they would prefer if no Warbirds or other historical military equipment was maintained in the hands of civilians.