Warbird Information Exchange

When I said, "Hostile Governments"; I did not mean Bow and Arrow type of hostile. What I did mean is a hostile type of meeting environment where all the parties have a difficult time coming to a satisfactory conclusion to get anything done. It could take several years of meetings with any government so secure a salvage permit. So why not make it easy on yourself and take your pick of the 3-4 P-38s that are already sitting in one of the nicest warbirds restoration facilities in the USA. Take a visit to Westpac in Colorado Springs, make a donation to their new WWII museum, take a tour of their facility,and come out of the experience a true believer. I visited Westpac in August and was blown away by their operation. Also, I'm the type person that isn't impressed easily.

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Well, a couple of shovels, some hair dryiers from the WalMart and we are off! Who wants what?

Its not the kill, its the thrill of the chase!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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A&P/I.A., A.A.S./Aviation Maintenance technology
Warbird salvage/recovery
One day I'll get that P-40!

That sounds more or less like the strategy of the previous group in the earlier thread, lol.

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Always looking for WW2 Half-Tracks and Parts.

Trying hard to overlook mis-spollings every day, Mark.

I do.

Certainly. I don't except Australian policy from fault - it stinks at times. However how I conduct myself on WIX isn't going to suggest 'we' go crashing around in other country by some right. I don't think we have that right.

Interestingly, Australia occupied German New Guinea in W.W.I, and had a League of Nations Mandate there until 1975, and administered Papua as part of the British Empire separately. Australia apparently remains PNG's largest financial and aid donor, so yes, there's unequivocally an imperial relationship from Australia to PNG, albeit an odd one. However I don't expect to have any right to reposes any Australian aircraft or junk there without the agreement of the local groups and government. Tricky, but their right.

I didn't. My post was in response to a comment that a nation was 'unfriendly' because it wouldn't allow another nations citizens to do as they please in their country. That's an imperialist attitude.

The original post at issue happened to be by an American poster, but had it been by a Brit, Australian or Belgian, it would also be inappropriate by the measure of the expectation of projecting control into another sovereign nation. Again, the fact the poster was American and talking about ex- USAAF aircraft made it specific, but from anyone the remark is both rude and just misunderstands the nature of international relations and diplomacy.


Certainly, but even the Danes can't just go to Greenland and take stuff without as much as a by your leave, which is the point, IMHO.

Again, that's not 'hostile', it's just protecting the rights of their state and citizens. A simple test is; would you regard the expectation of a group of Greenlanders coming to the US (or Bulgaria) and lifting something and taking it away without any local formal agreement? Of course not. And IMHO, right and proper.

As in many threads on WIX, you can focus on the disagreement, as we all do at times, or you can see what knowledge and information posters bring to the table that enables each of us (if we choose) to learn and develop our views. In this thread, I appreciate a number of good points and particularly CoastieJohn's regarding the J2F war grave situation, as it's an important case study, as well as being significant for what it (sadly) is.

And I absolutely agree. Though if you have a good line on hairdriers....

Respectfully,

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James K

"Switch on the underwater landing lights"
Emilio Largo, Thunderball.

www.VintageAeroWriter.com

Did you build that airplane? Did you fly it? Did your country even ever go out to look at the plane/plane's?

Exactly. We used the airplanes last, so technially we have ownership of the airplane, regardless if the USAAF transformed into the USAF, its still belongs to the tax payers.

Say I leave a Rolls-Royce in a barn in Britian and come to live in America, yet I still own the barn. After 20-50 years, the barn becomes over grown and someone see's the Rolls Royce inside the shed. Do they have the right to just take the car?

You also claim that Polar Ice caps may be melting soo badly that they could dissappear. Remember, Glacier Girl was under 270ft of ice. And, they had to drill through a B-17 to get to her. Which is a heavier object.

In the end, these are the facts: There American airplanes, built by Americans, flown last by Americans, and when they crashed it was in the middle of WW2. Do you think a major superpower in the middle of one of the biggest wars ever had time to recover a few P-38's?

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My racing will fund my warbirding. Hopefully...

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/#!/ChristopherDeshongRacing
Twitter: https://twitter.com/ChrisDRacing

......And they were abandoned by the Americans to leave the parent country to clean up our mess or do with them what they wish.

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He bowls overhand...He is the most interesting man in the world.
"In Peace Japan Breeds War", Eckstein, Harper and Bros., 3rd ed. 1943(1927, 1928,1942)
"Leave it to ol' Slim. I got ideas...and they're all vile, baby." South Dakota Slim
"Ahh..."The Deuce", 28,000 pounds of motherly love." quote from some Mojave Grunt
DBF

Do you really think the frozen oil and gasoline inside the fuel lines (oh wait they ran out of gas) and the airplanes themselves (which were under ice by 1950) are worse than your volcano's?

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My racing will fund my warbirding. Hopefully...

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/#!/ChristopherDeshongRacing
Twitter: https://twitter.com/ChrisDRacing

I don't own any volcanoes. I sold off my last one a couple of years ago. They were fun, but tremendously unreliable. I'd have guests over and when I went to fire 'em up, they wouldn't start. Then sometimes they would start up all by themselves and I couldn't get 'em to shut off. The only good thing they did was look pretty and expand my property....though too often over the next door neighbors property and they sued me over that mess. They were also hideously expensive to air condition! Good riddance, no more volcanoes for me!!!

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He bowls overhand...He is the most interesting man in the world.
"In Peace Japan Breeds War", Eckstein, Harper and Bros., 3rd ed. 1943(1927, 1928,1942)
"Leave it to ol' Slim. I got ideas...and they're all vile, baby." South Dakota Slim
"Ahh..."The Deuce", 28,000 pounds of motherly love." quote from some Mojave Grunt
DBF

Of course they don't. The barn - as a fixed-in-place building - is legally your property and Greenland isn't US property.



Fair enough, if that's your opinion. A couple of weeks ago, an unexploded USAAF bomb was unearthed in the middle of Munich. It had to be set off in situ, as it was deemed too dangerous to remove, severely damaging several houses in the process. So I guess you want to claim ownership of this and the consequences as well?



Not quite.

One of the first posts rejoiced in the fact that the Greenland ice cap is disappearing so that these aircraft are easier to recover. If, however, the polar ice caps disappear a lot of us - and maybe even these aircraft - will be covered by water and few other things will happen as well. I cannot feel any joy in some bent pieces of metal becoming accessible when the price for it is a global climate disaster.

But maybe I'm just too sensitive. Some people also find deforestation in places like Papua New Guinea a great thing, because it might reveal some aircraft wrecks.

Doesn't really matter who used them last, put fuel in them, or went to brush snow off. According to the people that are in charge of such things on your behalf, this was how things stood a few years ago.. does anyone know if it is still the case?

Air Force Regulation AFR 126-7 “Historic Preservation.”

12. Downed aircraft. Aircraft that crashed before 19 November 1961, when a fire destroyed the pertinent Air Force records, and that remain wholly or partially unrecovered, are considered formally abandoned. The Air Force neither maintains title to, nor has property interest in, these aircraft. The authority for access to, and recovery of, these aircraft, as well as liability for damages associated with their recovery, are matters to be resolved between persons seeking recovery and landowners of the wreckage sites.

Basically, its game on so long as the local authorities are happy.

Regards,

Rich

For what it's worth....I believe the correct sequence was they located a B-17 first and determined it was crushed too badly. Then they located the P-38. I've never heard of them drilling thru a B-17 to reach the P-38. Below is a series of historical pics of the planes from Warcovers. The first one shows the spacing between the aircraft.


http://www.warcovers.dk/greenland/crash150742.htm

Got a chuckle out of that one. Funny thread. I wonder what kind of shape the wings the B-17 are in. They would obviously be the most crush proof.

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Always looking for WW2 Half-Tracks and Parts.