Building skills to fly Warbirds

[RyanShort1]

by the way.. my 6 hrs of complex time so far is all in an arrow as well...
how much total time do you have now? how about tailwheel?

henning

Got my PPL Aug 8th, 2004.

Total time - about 115 hours

Tailwheel - 15.

You can add me to the list of hopefulls. Except I'd probably settle for a B-25.
Hope to get into Piper L-4s and Stinson L-5s, and maybe an L-3 next year with a local group called the Alamo Liason Squadron. I kinda figure that's the fastest track to genuine warbirds (ok so they're not quite as exciting)... And LOTS of tailwheel time.

PPL Oct. 15 2004

TT - 126 hrs

Tailwheel - 7.6

Ryan

Last edited by RyanShort1 on Sun Jul 24, 2005 6:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Saville]

Ryan,

Welcome to the club of aspiring trainees. We've a long way to go but I'm having a BALL getting there.

Saville

[oscardeuce]

Good luck everyone.
I have similar goals.
PPL in 1989, but college and stuff got in the way of flying for 12 years
I started in a C-172 and tail wheel time in a Steen Skybolt
I boutgh an O2-A so now I have a multi rating.
Looking to check out in a Stinson V-22 Gullwing soon!

G. Moorehead photo

Last edited by oscardeuce on Thu Jul 28, 2005 12:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

[Randy Haskin]

Is there any combat history to your 'Duck'?

[oscardeuce]

21 TASS 1969-1971 Phan Theit, Da Nang and An Khe. 3000 hours combat in the skies of Viet Nam. Supported 1st SOG Group in 1969. I've flown with one of the pilots who flew her in Viet Nam. Restored in 1991 back to flying status.
Here is a pic from 1976 of the tail sectio (10862) in storage at the D-M boneyard.

[Saville]

Well it's been a long time since I've posted progress here so I thought I'd add an update. To refresh, my goal is to acquire the skills and hours and training to be able to fly various Warbirds.

In brief, my plan is the following:

(DONE) Get PPL
(DONE) TD endorsement IFR rating
(DONE) High Power End. |
(DONE) Complex End. |
MULTI Eng End. |
(DOING) Aerobatic instruction v
|
|
v
Commercial
AT-6 time (lots)
P-51 signoff (Stallion 51 or similar)

Worked my way through a Tail Dragger endorsement in a fabulous J-3..a Complex Endorsement and signoff in a Piper Arrow, and began acro lessons last year in a Super Decathlon.

Things slowed up a bit here because I was fighting an airsickness problem. So a lot of flights were spent doing 3 or 4 maneuvers only then flyingback to Hanscom Field for lots of landing practice. It seemed as if I'd never get over the airsickness - I couldnt' see how I was going to do it but I kept on. Finally my tolerance built up to where I could do an entire hour of acro and be ready for more.

As an aside, I had done most of my recent flying at Beverly Airport in Massachusetts - Class D. Pretty quiet. Hanscom, on the other hand, is kinda wild. So I learned and continue to learn all sorts of new and exciting things that can happen in the pattern. Much busier - which is good.

My plan is to prepare to compete in the Sportsman Class of acro competition this summer. And I have to say acro is REALLY what I've thought flying was all bout all along.

Last Friday I went up in a Cherokee 300 and got my High Power Endorsement.
Have to admit, though, that I don't really see much benefit over and above the legalities. A new (for me) CFI talked to me for about 15 minutes and wanted to know what my experience was, and where I was going. Wasn't really much discussion about how this might be different, given the extra 100hp. Given that I already had my Complex and had been flying a Super Decathlon he didn't see any problem with getting the endorsement.

So, pre-flight, fire her up, put the spurs to her and off we go. Power on/off stalls, slow flight, hard turns and 4 landings later the CFI shrugged, said no problem and I got signed off.

Sure, I had to feed in a little more rudder on takeoff. And a lot more on power off stalls to keep the nose pinned. And yeah this thing flew like a Mac Truck (compared to the Decathlon). But to be perfectly honest, I don't feel like I'm any more ready to take on a 600hp aircraft, or even a 300hp Extra, than I was before Friday. So while I'm glad I got my ticket punched so that someday I can legally fly HP aircraft, I guess the real training has to wait until I take on the specific aircraft.

Got the POH for the Piper Seneca, and talked with the CFI about starting that phase. This will truly be a much bigger deal and I'm psyched.

[Saville]

One of my acro instructors is a former USAF F-4 pilot. I sought him out purposefully. It was a good move because he wants to start a formation flying instruction course where I am taking my acro work.

So every time we're ready to leave gthe practice area we search for another training plane in the air and he's been teaching me to fly wing. Straight on flying, turns, and lately cross-unders - what fun!

[Edward Soye]

Saville,

Interesting thread, and good goal to work towards. As others have said, I'm also shooting to be able to fly piston fighters some day.

I did my Harvard checkout last year, and am probably going to get into the FAST training this year.

Not sure if you'll find this encouraging or not, but from a hands and feet perspective the Harvard wasn't nearly as bad as I had expected. Just make sure you spend lots of time with the manual and sitting in the cockpit running through checks so you can focus on the flying and not trying to remember your half memorized downwind check once you get into the air (suppose thats good advice for any airplane really).

Anyways, good luck in your goal and keep us posted on how things proceed.

Cheers

Edward

[Bill Greenwood]

Saville, perhaps my experience may be of interest and use to you in your desire to fly a fighter, especially a 51. First don't let anyone talk you out of it or try to tell you you can't do it. It takes a good pilot, not a great one. There are a few aspects of a fighter that can get you dead real quick if untrained or foollish. As a basic student my instructor was average, but not into any sport type planes. I didn't know what to ask, so he just did the norm, in a Piper Cherokee 140; I did get some spin training. My advantage is that I had the time and desire; and I TRIED TO DO IT RIGHT. Solo in 12 hours, license in 43; 98 on my written test, a little better than average pilot at that stage. I read a lot, and flew an older Mooney. I got my instrument(Flightsafety- Vero Beach-lot's of Saudis there even then) and commercial with a newer Mooney. Then with 400 hours I bought a Spitfire MK IX. I was advised, for a novice this would be a little safer than a 51. It seemed logical, and fun to do it as in the old days, so I got about 10 hours in a J3 Cub, a little in a Stearman, and a good checkout in a T-6. The smartest thing I did was begin my T-6 training in the rear cockpit so lack of visibilty over the nose became normal, like the Cub , but more so. I had an excellent warbird pilot to teach me in the Spitfire and it flew so true, that I got about 20 hours dual, then soloed. I will finish this later.

[Bill Greenwood]

So many comments about formation so here's mine BRIEFLY. Formation flying is an advanced extra, about like pairs would be to ice skating, not required to fly a Mustang; I bought my plane '83, did not get formation til 87 in CAF. Get the Darton tapes! I'd rather see a student spend a couple of hours on them first then same amount in air. You can skip the first 30 min of tape one. I don't think station keeping is that hard, depends on the smoothness of the lead and the air. Just find the sight picture,(spinner&wing tip on 51; wing tip and tailwheel on T-6) and NEVER take your eye off the lead. Also power and pitch changes have a dual effect.

[henning]

Great tips there bill,

I just finally caught up on this thread! (after the pm!)

So saville, congrats! You've really come a long way.. so if I may
ask how much time do you have at this point?

and can you be more specific on getting the high perf. checkout?
was it really just 1 time up and a thorough check of the logbook?
I always thought it was much more involved than that.

enjoyed your posting on the progress!

thanks,
henning
ps. since '05 I've gotten a little farther as well.. got the instrument
out of the way, and added some additional tailwheel time.. including
4.7 in a t-6.. and hoping to go for more soon.

[Randy Haskin]

Just find the sight picture,(spinner&wing tip on 51; wing tip and tailwheel on T-6) and NEVER take your eye off the lead. Also power and pitch changes have a dual effect.

I think the most important stick-and-rudder technique for flying fingertip/close formation is just not to white-knuckle the stick. Having a death-grip on the controls will inevitably lead to over-controlling and PIOs.

The "wiggle your fingers, wiggle your toes" technique always works for me when I'm flying formation and I start tensing up. If you force yourself to wiggle each finger, then wiggle each toe, you physically have to give up the white-knuckle grip and the starters-block push against the ridder pedals.

This is a topic that we could literally fill dozens of pages in this forum instructing to, and one that even highly experienced pilots find challenging.

[doctor]

Saville:

Sounds like you've made good progress on your path. Don't give up: it's taken me about 20 years to get to flying a Stearman and SNJ regularly and right seat on the CAF's B-17, but it's worth it. Find a good mentor (or better yet, a couple of them) and listen to what they have to say. Lots of good advice on this forum, too. Word of caution: if you're not sure that what you're hearing is correct about an airplane, crosscheck it against the tech order (dash-1, etc) and ask around. Again, this forum is a great place to start and is also a great BS filter from some of the hangar tales you might hear about warbirds.

My two cents about formation training: I'm a USAF F-16 guy (currently) and did FAST in the SNJ last year at Midland, after messing around a little in Stearmans and civil stuff along with the military. Proper training and preparation is essential with formation flying: Randy Haskin is right on when he says that 90% of a safe flight is in the brief and debrief. FAST is a great way to find out what the baseline is for civilian formation flying. It's a little different than the military and probably quite a bit different than what ex military guys know: I've got a GREAT story concerning miscommunication between myself and an ex USAF guy in Stearmans; I'll tell you over a beer sometime. KNOWING, not guessing what the other guy will do is what will keep you alive and FAST will help you KNOW what the other guy is doing. It's a great time, too and a really good bunch of folks to spend a weekend with.

Good luck and keep on with trying to get to the fighters--I know I am!

[Bill Greenwood]

Ain't aviation great, here we have Randy in F-15s and Doctor in F-16s and which most of us regular pilots wonder if we could fly, and these guys want to fly the old stuff, Stearman, Mustang that we've flown.! I have found that some of the best pilots and most interesting folks have the same feeling as to new types of planes. It is sort of like a lady in a shoe store, you can never have too many.

[Saville]

Hi Edward,

Sure I find your post encouraging. And congrats on the Harvard Checkout!

As for the Harvard not being as bad as you expected - well I do read a lot about how the T-6 will humble you and that 20 hours in a Decathlon won't even prep you to walk past a T-6 slowly. But I remember when I started out my Tailwheel work in the J-3 and how I sucked the first few hops. I thought, "You gotta do this. THIS is your P-51"...meaning that every jump up will be a humbling experience and so it's part of the course.

I'll try to keep everyone posted without boring people to death.

thanks for the encouragment!

Saville,

Interesting thread, and good goal to work towards. As others have said, I'm also shooting to be able to fly piston fighters some day.

I did my Harvard checkout last year, and am probably going to get into the FAST training this year.

Not sure if you'll find this encouraging or not, but from a hands and feet perspective the Harvard wasn't nearly as bad as I had expected. Just make sure you spend lots of time with the manual and sitting in the cockpit running through checks so you can focus on the flying and not trying to remember your half memorized downwind check once you get into the air (suppose thats good advice for any airplane really).

Anyways, good luck in your goal and keep us posted on how things proceed.

Cheers

Edward