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When Hollywood Ruled The Skies - Volumes 1 through 4 by Bruce Oriss


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 9:06 pm 
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Mudge wrote:
There are those here who will slam you as "posers".
Yeah, there's always that risk. But I can counter that with asking how much the accuser paid to get to the event when we were specifially invited to take part.
I got a good chuckle out of a WW2 fighter pilot who heard a warbird crewman call us that at an airshow, and he jumped into the middle of it. I'll never forget what he said to the warbird guy, "YEAH? Well, aren't you a wannabe yourself, playing around with an old airplane when you're not getting shot at or spending years away from home?"

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 12:26 am 
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DING-DING-DING-DING :supz: :supz: :supz: good for him, I think you folks add to the texture of an event and levels of texture is what it's all about.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 1:00 am 
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I never have been able to get my head around the notion of re-enactors. The idea of aging and overweight men trying to replicate what kids were doing 70 years ago just seems silly to me. I get the idea, i think its a good concept, but i also think that the age thing must be taken into consideration. I'm not too sure how a vet would feel looking at a guy 20 years younger than him trying to look like he might have 70 years ago. Something about it just doesn't seem right to me :? :? :? .


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 8:41 am 
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Anyone know how long the Bee is planned to be on outside display at MOF? I haven't spotted this info in the thread or links.

August


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 9:53 pm 
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p51 wrote:
"YEAH? Well, aren't you a wannabe yourself, playing around with an old airplane when you're not getting shot at or spending years away from home?"


Superb quote.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 10:04 pm 
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Trust me, my wife will tell you that I have spent years away from home ! Nobody said how far away ! :roll:

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:12 pm 
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k5083 wrote:
Anyone know how long the Bee is planned to be on outside display at MOF? I haven't spotted this info in the thread or links.

August


I don't think for very long. Maybe a month or so.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 12:57 am 
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Got an e-mail today about the display next weekend, and apparently it's sitting right next to the B-47, on the grassy rise between the museum building and the parking lot. Good spot for it there to be seen and there's very little rain forecasted for a while (however, this is one of the most horrible locations in the country for localized weather and they can't predict weather as accurately here as in other places).
A lot of B-17 vets are expectesd to come out of the woodwork for this, might be the best chance you'll get to talk with the vets who flew these things for a while...

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 7:18 am 
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I talked to the museum director a while back and he said that ath the end of August it would be moved back into the hangar.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 1:39 am 
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Hi Chris...
The news of Boeings Bee is good to know. Our 2011 reunion will be Seattle and I know one of the events will be a visit to Museum and of course to see the '17. I'm hoping we can arrange for some PR shots of our veterans posed as a group in front of the nose, as well as other's of the whole reunion group. Such an historic ship, and taking account the past hard work to bring her back to life albeit static now, should be rewarded by having a proper home inside. Amazes me of all places, 'home of Boeing' that this hasnt figured on their personal radar...!!! A simple industrial style building at the very least, what does that actually cost? A drop in a very large bucket for Boeing.

I liked the period pictures earlier on the posting here of the crew re-enactors at an earlier event with Boeing's Bee. As a learning tool for visitors and adding colour to an event such as this, its good to see. However....

When it comes to more formal events, especially religious ceremonies at cemeteries and memorial dedications, I draw a very thick line on not dressing up and parading with flags, rifles, honour guards etc. I leave the formal recognitions with such things to the present day armed forces. The USAF over here in UK do a superb and rightful job conducting such ceremonies. In recent years Ive seen some uncomfortable and gut squirming scenes with well meaning people dressed up in grade 'A's, marching (mostly out of time) performing what actually becomes too much like a circus act. Twice now (at some other event not organised by myself I have to say) Ive seen the folding of, or rather the botched up folding, of the US flag during such a ceremony. It was painful to watch. To see one or more enthusiasts dressed in ill fitting uniforms, clearly carrying a few extra pounds, is not something I find respectful. And the wearing of awards, blue cloth combat patches and the full nine yards seems nothing more than crossing from the real world into a fantasy. Wearing in an informal teaching situation perhaps can be accepted (although I have heard some serving troops have questioned the wearing of awards by re-enactors which makes for more uncomfortable conversation). I sometimes worry that the fantasy begins to take over again....

In a formal act of remembrance, It does nothing for the mood, thats my opinion anyway. Displaying informally the equipment and flight gear is one thing, and as I say I applaud this side of re-enacting for its teaching of today's generation. But the act of religious remembrance is a whole other thing. At our 305th I ask the USAF (Molesworth-Lakenheath-Alconbury) to take charge of such ceremonies, and if asked (by re-enactors), politely say no to conducting such acts of remembrance. Everyone has a view on this I know, thats democracy and freedom which the WW2 guys fought for. Respect and dignity to them is the least that can be shown.

Anyway... good to see Boeing's Bee again. I had the pleasure in walking thru her at a past reunion, and it will be great to see her a second time this Sept.


Ian White
305th BGMA UK-EU Contact
2nd VP BOD


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 10:03 am 
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One fairly critical thing that no one seems to know or remember is, the Museum IS NOT THE PROPERTY OF BOEING. It is a semi-public institution and while Boeing is a great help in lots of ways it doesn't own any part of the institution. Funds for buildings are raised by private or public subscription, everyone thinks it's Boeing property because the focal point of the institution is the original Plant 1 building. The Hall of Heros was funded by VULCAN (P.Allen) which is why it looks the way it does, like a chicken coop built by 8 year olds, or a typical Vulcan Corp. Building.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 11:23 am 
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What p51 wrote... :supz: ....As for those of you who don't like "posers" as you call them, do you ever watch anything on TV or movies, that is fiction in any way, shape or form? How about when they make a historical movie about, say the Alamo? Jim Bowie was quite a bit younger when he was at the Alamo than was Richard Widmark, who portrayed him. How about ANY WWII, or WWI or Korean War movie? Those actors were all "posers" as well. What age difference between the portrayers of people and the actual people themselves is acceptable? 5 years older, 10, 15, 21.56? Give some guidelines for the rest of us.
Another question..if any of you detractors, of the reenactors, were approached and asked to join a day or two tour on a B-17, B-24, B-29, being able to ride in the planes, and maybe catch a free ride in a P-51, dual control P-40, or any other warbird, with the stipulation that you had to wear period correct clothing, would you refuse the offer?


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 Post subject: Re: Re-enactor Woe
PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 1:39 pm 
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I began re-enacting before I was 15. I did so because my future First Sergeant in the PA National Guard was a retired USMC COL who needed bodies to do an honor guard for a deceased friend. In a day I was issued a set of khaki's and a 1903 Springfield Rifle, taught how to march, do right shoulder arms, port arms, inspection arms, and be part of a firing party. It went well, even though a few blanks misfired during the ceremony. But I had that covered as I was instructed to just act like I was firing and continue with the rest of the group. That was the first time after Boy Scouts that I wore a uniform. It appealed to me. I did one more re-enactment for a public demonstration and then didn't pick up the hobby for another 6 years. At that time, I did about 2 years of US Civil War re-enacting when I got the chance between real Army duties. In 2004, I started my current unit, the 14th Liaison Squadron, and have been doing a few other units which had relations with the 14th during WWII.

Having actually served, I am quite embarassed by some of the things that go on in re-enacting organizations. Specifically, safety issues, personal appearance issues (I particularly love the 350 lb 101st Airborne re-enactors), authenticity efforts, and the lack of training that goes on in most units. There are a great deal of people who never served a day in their lives in actual service, and it shows. There are many other legitimate criticisms of re-enactors, and those who participate in the hobby should listen to them carefully.

But you can't dispute that a half-track driving by with a full squad of infantry in the back with air guard on the .50 doesn't evoke a sense of history that reading about the same thing truly lacks. A friend's Sherman tank broke down at Fort Indiantown Gap during a re-enactment. The crew and nearby infantrymen used a log found on the range to break track and repair the tank in the field, just like was described to one of the crewmembers of the tank by a WWII 4th Armor Veteran. The photos of the event (which I missed) were very educational to me, and the info was passed on to a few other tank owners who never heard of doing it the way the crew got it done. When I attended Thunder over Michigan in 2008, the four P-47's doing strafing passes over the bean field and 500 re-enactors probably were doing
the passes in a setting that hadn't been seen in 64 years. I got chills watching and remembering my Uncle telling me about watching them flying supporting his unit in WWII.

I agree that being a 43 year old man portraying a 24-25 year old pilot in an L-5 has its limitations. I'm not in constant fear of my life. I'm more sure of my future than the people I'm portraying were. But when I display the airplane, it's not just some sterile piece of equipment on the ramp. My intent is to demonstrate that the machine was operated by that young man, at war, in some danger at most times, and to bring them back to life a bit since most of them are gone. Wearing a uniform, some equipment, and doing some explanation about the airplane/vehicle and its job is critical to preserving the history that these aircraft, vehicles, and artifacts represent.

To get back to it, there is technology here which needs to be preserved- and I don't mean aluminum, electric or hydraulic- I mean Human Technology. There was a culture, social mores, training philosophy, adaptations to equipment, and a whole slew of things which necessitate a human interpretation in order to properly preserve the history of the time. This is not something that can be academically reproduced. Re-enactors fill that void, for better or worse, good or bad, accurately or inaccurately.

I'll relate one anecdote here that should clarify my opinion. A friend's son was on his way to joining the USMC. He was actively playing WWII combat video games of some sort. He told me, "You have to play it, it's just like being there." I knew he was going to change his opinion after he went to boot camp and went downrange first time. But if you want a whole generation to learn about WWII from video games, movies, TV or other media, then getting rid of re-enactors would be a good thing. Somehow, fat 101st Airborne reenactors aside, I think that would be a bad thing.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 9:31 pm 
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I didn't make it for the event on Saturday after all due to issues at home. I know it rained off an on most of the day, though. Haven't seen any photos of the event anywhere yet.

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