Warbird Information Exchange

James, don't forget NASM's Ta 152 example as well!

I'm confused by this statement. Are you saying that the ex-Tom Blair Dora, which is a Flug Werk, will be dissassembled and all of the non-original Flug Werk parts on it will be discarded and the original parts left combined with the ex-Glen Lacey project to make it an authentic Focke Wulf Dora 9 example?

Accuracy is important, I'd suggest (pedantically). Great project though it is, it will remain a replica, not become an original restored Focke Wulf. For those that wish to see no difference, that's irreverent, but speaking as an history student, it is important to differentiate between originals and copies from a historical accuracy point of view. OTOH I'm sure the replicas are just as much - probably more - fun than an original.

And we mustn't forget the White One Fw 190F project itself.

Regards,

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James K

"Switch on the underwater landing lights"
Emilio Largo, Thunderball.

www.VintageAeroWriter.com

More information. Tehachapi, California is confirmed as the test flight location:

http://www.eaa.org/news/2010/2010-12-02_fw190.asp

Gatow has the ex Schwerin D-9 under long term rebuild, however it does have a Flug Werk rear fuselage and wings IIRC, as it was not conserved as well as it could have been when recovered back in 1990 or so, and the wings suffered severe impact damage when the pilot touched the water with one of them. At least one more Dora in that lake.
The JG 54 wrecks were small ground dug remains, pictures of which appeared in Urbanke's book 'Green Hearts'

Dave

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When discussing warbirds it helps to have a very selectrive memory on this topic.
Many flying Spitfires, Hurricanes and Mustangs are probably closer to being replicas than "real" aircraft. This includes many seen as "national treasures".

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Remember the vets, the wonderful planes they flew and their sacrifices for a future many of them did not live to see.

That was announced by Meier Motors recently. I have no idea how much material the Lacey project had to begin with, so I can't say if they will "graft" old and new parts. Seems silly. But the intent is to hang the proper Jumo 213 on the business end and the owner has a data plate.

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"They done it, they done it, damned if they ain't flew." December 17, 1903

No, absolutely not. There are a number of specifics here, and the focus on the prestige fighters is a distraction from the majority of mediums and heavies which are predominantly original.

The second point in the specific is that the Flug Werke machines are not part-exchangeable with genuine Focke Wulf parts. Like kitcar copies of prestige cars versus the rebuilt originals, they provide a fun, 'affordable' alternative to the original, but are not a machine restored to original standards using parts and techniques that are as the machine was originally manufactured.

There are also people and organisations that closely monitor the restoration business. Certainly there are regular efforts to wander in with a data plate in one end of the workshop and wheel out an original the other end; however as a close observer of this business, I am comfortable that the degree of originality is known (and establishable - if not shouted about) of any major warbird. Specifically I for one am comfortable that the degree of originality of any airworthy Hurricane is known, and documented.

You are quite right that there are Spitfires (and I'm sure Mustangs) flying that started from a lump of corroded metal less than three sq metres in size. However the rebuilt machines - certainly Spitfires and Hurricanes in the UK - while containing new metal and workmanship are reconstructed to the same design standards as they were originally. They do not contain modern substitute equipment, but new-old-stock, or painstakingly re-manufactered parts. Changes are very hard to introduce, however beneficial they may be. The variance from original material - the amount of which as I say is known - is a degree of pedantry that is of interest to specialists and (non-flying) national-level collections. Which is why we also have them.

Just because the majority discussion floats about on the 'looks like a duck' and 'grandfather's axe' level of analysis does not mean that superficiality applies to all.

Regards,

PS - I am using the term 'replica' in the lose, general, rather than the precise museum standard of the concept.

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James K

"Switch on the underwater landing lights"
Emilio Largo, Thunderball.

www.VintageAeroWriter.com

PS - Of course that's all debatable, and also a simplified generalisation! But, like restorations, you gets what ya pays for.

I will be happy to see either replica or original before I depart this world. But from the purist viewpoint and for historical clarity there should be a distinction between the two as you say.

To what extend the Blair Dora will be rebuilt isn't known to me, but I'm excited that it will be much closer to the original when done.

If there is a second Dora on the bottom of Lake Schwerin and if it isn't rotted away, then it is probably the best candidate to rebuild a purely historical original. All of those lakes are probably full of other treasures as well.

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"They done it, they done it, damned if they ain't flew." December 17, 1903

If someone goes after trying to find this would they be

'Dora the Explorer'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dora_the_Explorer

Fw190D's

There is at least 3 more Fw190D's as well as other aircraft types.

The Fw190D recovered in 1990 was a different identity to the one they were searching for even though it in the same small area of the Schwerinersee!!!!

When I was doing research for Axel Urbankes Fw190D book and the 2TAF, a couple of D-9s collided on May 1st 1945 and also Ostrowiski's D-9 which was lost on 17th April 1945? is still in there. There was also a pair of Buckmanns? that collided.

During the film survey they also spotted a silver finished aircraft with red star - MiG-15/17!!

Bad Zwischenahn has a pair of Bf110's - possibly recovered post war but thought still to be in the sediment.

Lots in there but German has a different ownership/salvage rules than say Austria.

So there is other original JG26 D-9's and other WWII aircraft to be found in Germany.

Have not even looked at Pauersee or Muritzersee.

Tempest V would be nice! - in fact any of the late war types.

Anyone got a fish finder and want to for a row across a few of these lakes?!!

From memory but you get the jist!

Mark

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'Coups De Foudre'
(511FS, 405FG watering hole), St Dizier, France 1944/45

"Buckmanns"?

Bücker Bestman?

Just by the way, while I appreciate the glosses and additions, most interesting, my original statement on the Fw 190D models was and is still correct. That's why it had the adjectives in it. They weren't decoration, they were for precision.

Regards,

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James K

"Switch on the underwater landing lights"
Emilio Largo, Thunderball.

www.VintageAeroWriter.com

James - correct.

More on first flight

http://www.hbrf.org.nz/joomla/index.php ... &Itemid=59

Not bad considering that had not seen her to do the correct colour scheme.

Don't think Steve is flying her!

Mark

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'Coups De Foudre'
(511FS, 405FG watering hole), St Dizier, France 1944/45