If you held an "Authentic B-25 Contest"

m charters · **Posted:** Thu Aug 26, 2010 10:19 pm

Pat Carry wrote:

Where is the Brainerd B-25 now? What ever happened to the B-25 on display at a water park/amusement park in Florida?

I saw that B-25 when I drove through in 1991. I had an article somewhere here about it, that it was in the hands of AeroTrader in storage?!

B-25J-20NC c/n 108-33087 44-29812 (N2854G), ex-TB-25J, ex-TB-25N BD-812, ex-Paul Bunyan Amusement Park, " 327102 Safe Return ", Aero Trader, Ocotillo Wells, CA (S)

Always thought that would be an amazing project!
Would really like to know the plans for her. Last info in another wix note last year had it in New Orleans for the National WWII Museum.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=31346&start=0

k5083 · **Posted:** Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:21 am

gary1954 wrote:

Nathan wrote:

Miss HAP is my fav. Because she is an early version.

Early Version, I almost Choked on my coffee.......
Early Version, she is the sole surving example of the B-25 being the 4th production model to roll off the assembly line.
In historical value alone as the VIP Transport for General Henry "Hap" Arnold, and being the 4th production model B-25
she should be in the National Museum and N10564 returned to the air.

Problem is that although it was an early version, those days are long gone. The bird hasn't been representative of an early B-25 since WWII, when it traded in its straight wings for gulls and got the VIP transport treatment. Ever since then it has been a one-off mutt. Just because it has the data plate of the 4th production B-25 doesn't give it much historical value if it is otherwise completely unrepresentative of an early B-25. OTOH, it was, when first restored in the 1980s, still very much in the Hap Arnold transport configuration, and had significance because of that. I have a nice Air Classics piece on it from that period with some good wartime photos of this plane and one or two of its VIP sister ships. Unfortunately, that significance too has been compromised by the change to a bomber nose. At least they haven't added turrets yet, and the fuselage looks pretty much intact. I don't know how much of the VIP interior remains, but I hold out the hope that the bomber mods are reversible and that someone, someday, can put the plane back into its wartime Hap Arnold configuration and paint job.

August

Pogo · **Posted:** Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:44 am

bluehawk15 wrote:

Thanks for the vote Pogo! The Yellow Rose does have a war-weary look these days, and as far as public appearances goes, she should be at the top end of the list for fly-overs and air shows.

As God is my witness, I think I may have been happier before this thread popped up. Nah, guess not. But it's still tough to get over the sudden realization of just how little I knew before, and how well I had been getting along that way! Guess my days of lily-white innocence are over....... :roll:

Kinda goes back to my old mantra: Never become a connoisseur of anything if it can be helped. But since it's too late for that now, I would just like to say, for the thousandth time here on WIX, a great big thanks to everybody who is supplying all this wonderful wisdom. I feel almost ready to go out and nab the first passerby I see, and talk B-25 technical details at him until his hair turns white and his teeth fall out.

mustangdriver · **Posted:** Fri Aug 27, 2010 9:33 am

I actually agree that compared to these other B-25's the NMUSAF B-25 would fall pretty far down the list. I do think it is a very well done display though. Where would Yankee Warrior fall in this being that it is a combat vet?

Django · **Posted:** Fri Aug 27, 2010 10:32 am

k5083 wrote:

Problem is that although it was an early version, those days are long gone. The bird hasn't been representative of an early B-25 since WWII, when it traded in its straight wings for gulls and got the VIP transport treatment. Ever since then it has been a one-off mutt. Just because it has the data plate of the 4th production B-25 doesn't give it much historical value if it is otherwise completely unrepresentative of an early B-25. OTOH, it was, when first restored in the 1980s, still very much in the Hap Arnold transport configuration, and had significance because of that. I have a nice Air Classics piece on it from that period with some good wartime photos of this plane and one or two of its VIP sister ships. Unfortunately, that significance too has been compromised by the change to a bomber nose. At least they haven't added turrets yet, and the fuselage looks pretty much intact. I don't know how much of the VIP interior remains, but I hold out the hope that the bomber mods are reversible and that someone, someday, can put the plane back into its wartime Hap Arnold configuration and paint job.

August

August, do you or anyone else have any photos from the war of the aircraft? I looked in Google but didn't come up with anything.

Ken · **Posted:** Fri Aug 27, 2010 5:07 pm

bluehawk15 wrote:

The biggest thing is the bomb bay cover being gone. However, with the "catwalk" across it, it makes for a wonderful flight experience as movement from the nose to the tail can be done easily and quickly.

Can someone post a photo or details? The 4 different B-25's I've had the pleasure of crawling in all had what I believe to be original bomb bays with the tight crawl space above. I'm just not familiar with this modded setup.

mustangdriver wrote:

Where would Yankee Warrior fall in this being that it is a combat vet?

Being a vet has little to do with authentic equipment or paint scheme, if that has been compromised over time. Somebody chime in and tell us more about YW.

Pogo wrote:

But it's still tough to get over the sudden realization of just how little I knew before, and how well I had been getting along that way!

But isn't that the fun of WIX?? There aren't many street corners where you can pull up and ask someone if they know about the wood trim on B-25H external cockpit armor plate.

I'm enjoying this thread. Some photos and a few more details could really keep this thing going.

Anybody qualified to comment on the sea of stencils applied to Wild Cargo ... all authentic??

Cripes A Mighty · **Posted:** Sat Aug 28, 2010 6:49 am

Easy......How Boot That. The aircraft has an unbelievable combat history and the nose art was painted by the man that did it during the war....using the paint he had then! Plus it is immaculate.

Yellow Rose has to be my favorite authenticity aside, although she did look alot better without that bra!

Ken · **Posted:** Sat Aug 28, 2010 9:10 am

FG1D Pilot wrote:

It has the photo album from the pilot who flew her, thereby having the markings and details as accurate as photos allow.

I just found these:

http://www.warwingsart.com/12thAirForce ... tthat.html

Doug, would you be able to post any others to share?

Mark V · **Posted:** Sat Aug 28, 2010 5:45 pm

Ken wrote:

Anybody qualified to comment on the sea of stencils applied to Wild Cargo ... all authentic??

Yes, me I guess, as I applied them! All the stencils were taken directly from the NAA factory drawings obtained from the Smithsonian and took about a week to apply - the nose art is however a modern variation in a period style at the instruction of the owner.

Jack Cook · **Posted:** Sat Aug 28, 2010 7:03 pm

I don't know I guess I just liked ours :idea:

NW of Madras cruising past Mt. Hood

A real M2 make it look authentic!

Perry R · **Joined:** Sat Feb 13, 2010 3:15 pm **Posts:** 21

Lynn Hunt wrote:

I suppose this is one thread I should chime in on. More of a reader than a writer. Also, where's Taigh?? Anyway, I've only seen a couple of the afore mentioned airplanes. I was recently admiring Betty's Dream and taking pictures when Pat wasn't looking. We all need to pay homage at the base of the Carl/Tony alter for they are certainly among the leaders when it comes to authenticity in B-25's. What's more significant to me is they often start with a stripped out TB. I've only seen pics of BT but that airplane set the standard way back before it was even cool to do that. What excites me the most is that in so many cases there is now a move toward authenticity. The battleground seems to be do I give up seats and do I sacrifice performance to lug all of that armament around. Paint will always be an issue. Long after all B-25's have corroded into nothingness and all that is left is a hologram to look at there will still be a$%holes arguing over the color of paint!

I think the only reason I made honorable mention is because of Taigh. My blessing was that my airplane never passed through any civilian hands before I got it. Lots of stuff had been removed but I was way ahead of a lot of guys that tackle a restoration project. Unfortunately for me whatever advantages I may have had initially is more than compensated for by fewer zero's on the end of my restoration budget. For me in several cases the best restoration is no restoration at all. Switch panels, some instruments, most armament is going back in just as it came out.
Still on my pipe dream list: she will fly on Holley Carbs. Also, one little tidbit I discovered was corrosion on the fuselage skin where the side pack 50 cal barrels sat caused by the corrosive gases coming out of the gun. I refuse to grind it off!

As to this thread, smarter folks than me have already chimed in and I trust their assessments. I'd like to hear form Carl.

To all out there who struggle to restore authenticity to any airplane, you have my admiration and undying support.

Oh ya, please help me find an SCR695 IFF for my bomber.

Sure like to help Lynn!
That`s a fine story and fine topic. In fact I hear everyone talk about US based B25`s but my favorite is our Dutch based B25-J 44-29507! It surely isn`t the most authentic Mitchell compared by most US Mitchells but it is the only flying example in Dutch markings and a well known participant in the European air show circuit. We are in the process of turning her more original and still have long way to go.

See ya,
Perry

Ken · **Posted:** Sun Aug 29, 2010 2:26 pm

Lynn Hunt wrote:

I think the only reason I made honorable mention is because of Taigh.

Thank goodness Taigh shared your project with us. What a neat airplane you have and I salute you for undertaking the project - something I can only dream about. Whenever you feel ready to share more details, thoughts, or photos, I know I will be anxious to listen and learn. Thanks Lynn. -Ken

mu5tanggt · **Joined:** Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:27 pm **Posts:** 18

Here's a pic of the NEAM B25H "Dog Daize" (43-4999) sitting derlict in its Dominican AF markings at Trenton, NJ in the late 60's, I used to play on it as a kid. Plane was still very intact at this time. There was also a B25J (43-46075) solid nose next to it that was scrapped when NEAM came to pic up the B25H. Second pic is NEAM (Conneticut Air Museum) in the 70's before the Tornado, I'm standing under the cockpit.

Pogmusic · **Posted:** Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:42 pm

gary1954 wrote:

The Armament Museum at Elgin AFB I believe has a M-4 75mm canon for the B-25 they did in 1983

Which B-25? The one they have is a TB-25N converted to look like a Doolittle B-25. I use to polish this A/C as an AFJROTC Cadet when it was still in the neighboring city of Valparaiso, FL. It was in full gutted TB-25 mode then.

Speedy · **Posted:** Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:22 pm

ChrisDNT wrote:

Finding a B-25 with an accurate historical finish, without a modern pinup and chrome everywhere is probably not an easy task.

"Maid in the Shade" is done up in it's original wartime markings, but I think it's painted silver as opposed to natural metal. But I think the nose art is accurate.

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If you held an "Authentic B-25 Contest"

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