Japanese Corporations buying and hoarding warbirds?

PinecastleAAF · **Joined:** Fri May 25, 2007 4:50 pm **Posts:** 1028

Sometimes when reading history I come upon something that makes me really stop and think.
Several years ago I read a book about Black tankers in WW2. During training in the states before shipping overseas they had a lot of unpleasant experiences with the locals, particularly in the south. In one part they are stopped at a train station. There were german POW's eating inside the restuarant and the black tankers are not allowed in because of their skin color. Imagine if you were one of those guys confronted with that situation. These men deserve a special place in history for fighting for their country, a country that would not let them vote or eat in a restaurant of their choice.

Amazing.

Nathan · **Posted:** Mon Mar 08, 2010 1:59 pm

Come back muddyboots! I'll debate with you any day! :lol:

ZRX61 · **Joined:** Tue Jun 14, 2005 10:16 am **Posts:** 2309

the330thbg wrote:

mustangdriver wrote:

August there is no doubt what was done with Indians was wrong. But to compare the americans to the Japanese is crazy. Also one of the biggest differences is the U.S. Doesn't hide what happened, but educates so that it won't happen again. In school every year kids take part of the year to learn about it. The Japanese hide and change history that they created. They did so to the point that the Chinese were recently burning the books because there was a chapter missing that covered WWII.

Changing it so much, that a mate of mine, who is Japanese.., was on a flight with a japanese teenager and he asked her what they were studying in school.. She said WWII history.,. and he asked her about it and she said it was a terrible war between Japan and Russia.., he said anyone else and she said NO!

Amazing!!!

Ask Americans about the US Army helping the white Russians fight the reds during the Russian Revolution sometime & see how many know the US sent about 20,000 troops..... or even when & where it happened...

& then we have the US Revolutionary War.. which was in fact a British civil war fought in the US (remember, both armies were essentially British...) Thereby teaching the Americans that if you are going to fight a war, do it on someone elses turf .... & I've got to say you learned that lesson well

(& you need a bit of guidance in the Empire Dept.)

Kaigun Fan · **Joined:** Fri Nov 26, 2004 10:20 am **Posts:** 174

Hello,

BACK to the "topic" of this thread. I have NEVER heard anything of private Japanese companies buying up warbirds as investments.

There are a few "serious" private collectors of both aircraft and parts though. Collector Nobuo Harada is at the top having recovered and restored several Zero fighters, literally as a labor of love (for the Zero) and with with his own funds. He even DONATED one of the restored Zeros to the Yasukuni Shrine for display because their collection was missing one. Nice person too for a man who is fairly wealthy, I would guess.

MOST Japanese don't seem to know much or even care about WW II.

I used to have a big picture of a Zero fighter in my classroom (iin Japan) with the big hinomaru or the so-called meatball on the fuselage. Sadly, may students asked me, is that airplane Japanese or ? Clueless.

Very sad indeed, especially for the WW II vets, who for the most were/are good people. But, I know certain groups like the infamous Kempetai were darn bad war criminals. The pilots (at least to me) are a totally different story.

Sincerely,

Ron Werneth
http://www.beyondpearlharbor.com

airnutz · **Posted:** Mon Mar 08, 2010 5:43 pm

JBoyle wrote:

...has more to do with the lack of general aviation activity in the country than a lack of interest or pride in their past technological accomplishements.

Mmm...not really, IMO. In my reading the Japanese seem to be "institutionally" bent on ignoring aspects of
their history for the most part. Mileage may vary with the individual curiosity tho, and the internet has been partly
influential in that education.

In doing some digging on what was to become the Kawasaki Ki-78 high speed aircraft. One of the engineers on the project
also worked on the earlier Koken-ki endurance aircraft which set a world record in 1938. His name was Mineo Yamamoto and
in further reading I ran across various writings of his son, Yuichi Yamamoto. I've been reading his stuff for a few years
now and his attempts to share his dad's legacy...engineering as well as political..have been frustrating for him.

Of note, Yuichi laments MacArthur as the second emperor of Japan and regrets Truman did not
use Fat Man and Little Boy on Tokyo, thus decapitating the Emperial head from Japan at the end of the war, which
would have given them a fresh start.

Some of Mineo's data languishes at the National Museum of Naure and Science in Tokyo...a museum with 100 curators
with only 1 being assigned to ALL aviation history of his country. The following is one of Yuichi's articles in the
Tokyo Free Press...he's defineately against the grain... :wink:

http://www.tokyofreepress.com/article.p ... 9200316734

You can backtrack to previous submissions at the topleft of the article or go down to the bottom lower left for others.

airnutz · **Posted:** Mon Mar 08, 2010 5:48 pm

ooops..

JBoyle · **Posted:** Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:04 pm

airnutz wrote:

JBoyle wrote:

...has more to do with the lack of general aviation activity in the country than a lack of interest or pride in their past technological accomplishements.

Mmm...not really, IMO. In my reading the Japanese seem to be "institutionally" bent on ignoring aspects of their history for the most part. Mileage may vary with the individual curiosity tho, and the internet has been partly influential in that education.

I think you misunderstood part of my point concerning the relative lack of general aviation in Japan. I was referring to JDK’s original point about Flying warbirds.

But still, I disagree with your contention of a lack of Japanese interest in their WWII aircraft.

Yes, they lost the war and are a very proud people, so I wouldn’t expect them to revel in their defeat. It would be interesting to compare their current attitudes with the Germans. Perhaps they do tend to forget about their artifacts, but I don’t think that they are as neglectful as your post indicates. The a national museum gladly took back a flying boat when it was offered by the NASM back in the 70s.

Some anecdotal evidence may be on the shelves of our hobby stores. Japanese kit makers have never been shy about making kits of their wartime aircraft. Certainly not all are made for export, so those, plus local books and magazines on aviation tend to suggest that at least some are interested in their military aviation past. I believe the PoF Zeke was very warmly received there when it made a series of flights there a few years back.

Mikesh’s book shows that the National Science Museum you refer to does have a A6M2 on display. A total of nine other warbirds are on display in government museums (plus the three in shrines plus seven others in museums I don’t know who operates) so with about half the country's surving warbirds in governemnt museums, there is clear evidence that the government is "institutionally bent on ignoring aspects of their history" as you suggest.
If they wanted to erase all traces of it, they could have done a much better job. And as we get further away from the war, their interest might even increase.

Kaigun Fan · **Joined:** Fri Nov 26, 2004 10:20 am **Posts:** 174

Hello,

I speak from having lived and worked in Japan for several years. Frankly, I think most of the Japanese (I met) could care less about WW II, their veterans or history. In fact, they were surprised, "Why would an American (me) care so much about WW II?"

Sadly, most of the Japanese WW II veterans (I know) say that Japanese people have "no love of their flag" (exact words). There is no Veterans' Day in Japan either. They are forgotten and largely misunderstood.

The nicest people I met in Japan were the vets and I also met many other superb Japanese people through my work, etc., but most didn't have a "clue" about the war (including my wife).

Ron W.

Robbie Roberts · **Posted:** Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:30 pm

k5083 wrote:

To clarify, I'm not saying the US is bad. Just that Japan, over the course of its history, has not been especially barbaric or militaristic, and the US has been no better than Japan.

August

I agree completely. Unless you include Manchuria, Singapore, Nanking, the Phillipines, the Bataan Death March, and Unit 731...

Sure.

Robbie :roll:

bdk · **Joined:** Sun May 02, 2004 1:16 am **Posts:** 11330

Way off topic to the original question, but what the hay!

It must be embarrasing to be on the losing side. I'm not surprised that the Japanese, Germans and Italians don't go out of their way to celebrate the fact that they made some huge mistakes both socially and militarily and lost the war. Also, when I was a kid I had plenty of relatives and mentors that participated in WW2. It was relatively recent and familiar. Nowadays that isn't the case. Also, the war wasn't really even in the US so while there were some adjustments to be made, one didn't have to drive by the ruins in Gemany or Japan (or even the UK) on the way to work every day. I'm sure that former members of the Axis powers wanted to get this all behind them as quickly as possible and move on. While I might like the Japanese, for instance, to continue to punish themselves for their country's actions before most of the population was born, I don't like people in the US seeking reparations for slavery either- something that occurred long before any of my relatives even came to the US. Why is this my responsibility?

Django · **Posted:** Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:04 am

Wonder if it would ever be possible to "tour" one of the airworthy Zeroes in Japan?

Warbird Kid · **Posted:** Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:59 am

Django wrote:

Wonder if it would ever be possible to "tour" one of the airworthy Zeroes in Japan?

I too have thought about this idea and have hoped something like it would happen. What an interesting situation it would be if Mr. Harada decided to ship his 2 Zero's to POF, reassemble them, and tour for a season in America? Not only could it show the Japanese public back home (the few that would actually notice) that Americans respected and were interested in there military history, but also were encouraging to see these aircraft actually fly.

Django · **Posted:** Tue Mar 09, 2010 12:37 pm

I meant touring a US based Zero in Japan. Since it's would have a US registry, would it be legal to do so?

Warbird Kid · **Posted:** Tue Mar 09, 2010 12:57 pm

Django wrote:

I meant touring a US based Zero in Japan. Since it's would have a US registry, would it be legal to do so?

Somepoint in the 80's or early 90's POF brought there Zero and P-51 to Japan for a few select shows. Would be nice to see it happen again. But either way would be cool. Kind of the (you scratch my back Ill scratch yours) deal.

k5083 · **Posted:** Tue Mar 09, 2010 12:58 pm

Django wrote:

I meant touring a US based Zero in Japan. Since it's would have a US registry, would it be legal to do so?

It has been done at least three times by Planes of Fame. First they took their Ki-84 to Japan and flew it for display; while there it found a buyer and never came back. When their Zero was first restored, they flew it for display in Japan. In the 1980s they took it over again, together with a P-51D, for flying displays. Hasegawa even issued a commemorative model kit of that event, of the two types with decals for the POF's planes. As I understand it, the planes were well received each time.

From what we are hearing on this thread, Japanese awareness of WWII history is very much like that here or anywhere else. Like here, it's safe to say most people there hardly know or care about WWII, and if you ask them questions about it, the results seem embarrassing. A significant minority has a great deal more interest -- enough to sustain the hobby industry that Jboyle referred to. Note that this interest is not new, and it extends to books and other publications as well as model kits. Many WWII aviation buffs in the late 1960s and early 1970s sought out the Koku-Fan publications because they were some of the best resources on WWII planes, even if you couldn't read the Japanese text. By the way, a lot of those books and magazines were of US, British, Luftwaffe, and other subjects, and were better researched than most publications about those planes from their own countries. So the idea that we have to teriyaki-flavor WWII aviation history to make it palatable to the Japanese is untrue, perhaps a bit patronizing. There are newer Japanese publications about US, UK, and Luftwaffe camouflage and markings that I still have on my shelf because in some ways they are better than anything published here (better research, more hard info rather than eye candy).

Like most of you, my experience with Japanese WWII buffs is limited. I have walked visitors from Japan, as well as China and other countries, through major American air museums. In each case I have found that they were quite knowledgeable and not especially biased. They tended to know the pilots, units and exploits of their own country best, and better than I did. Not surprising. As you might expect, many of these buffs regret and envy the fact that they don't get to see the old warbirds in flight while other countries do, knowing very well that the warbird scene exists. Maybe someday that will change.

August

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