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Classic Wings Magazine WWII Naval Aviation Research Pacific Luftwaffe Resource Center
When Hollywood Ruled The Skies - Volumes 1 through 4 by Bruce Oriss


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:51 pm 
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Glad to hear the good news!!!!!! Sad part is, with the rise in steel. We are loosing alot of vintage military vehicles to the scrap guy!!

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 1:05 am 
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Great news!

That slice in the wing looks pretty nasty. Is it repairable?

SN


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 9:48 am 
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The slice is repairable. They cut it right at the production joint where all the stringers are spliced together. Three stringers and a skin repair and good as new. A few more hours or days and it would have been history.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 11:16 am 
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That is great news that everything was recovered with minimal damage. The fact the media ran with this story and probably made a difference in the outcome is amazing in itself.

The thieves should be dropped in the smelter themselves. :twisted:

Les


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 1:37 pm 
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Well, now I think this is reason to get cranking and get that PV-2 back together and up in the air! That way it's a heck of a lot harder for people to attempt their thieving with it!

Hear that Robert? It's the sound of 2800's roaring... :-)

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 2:11 pm 
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Location: Canada, eh
Recently had a bunch of copper vases stolen from a local graveyard here in the Great White North . The police just busted a graveyard employee!

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 2:51 pm 
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Thought I'd weigh in here after the dust has settled and a week's worth of spills, chills and thrills is now a small image in my personal rear-view mirror.

Do I feel like I found the winning lottery ticket in the street? Man, you'd better believe it. The odds of all of this playing out in our favor were probably worse off than your chances playing the PowerBall, truth be told. And brother, have I learned a lot...

I suppose that's one of the things that WIX excells at - being an open format to exchange data, learn and help one another. I'll drop in my two-cents worth here after being mentally flogged from this theft, the chase, and the recovery. I'm muddled and wordy, but bear with...

I guess I could grandstand and blame China's industrial explosion in the world marketplace as the real culprit, but this is not the place for my convoluted theories on economics. But the fact of the matter is that today scrap metal - steel, copper, iron and aluminum is at an all-time premium price. Supply and demand, pure and simple. For those of us who love old planes, vehicles, trains, farm machinery, whatever - we're all extremely vulnerable right now because this supply and demand cycle has created, nursed and reared a sub-culture of thieves that'll go after ANYTHING that might have value in the scrap trade. The lowest of the low? How about the scum here in the Valley that is stealing bronze grave markers from the cemetaries... hopefully, there's a deep place in heck for the people who do this.

Our wings and trailer were in a locked and gated compound, and this did not deter the thieves. The very fact we got this stuff back was the direct result of a couple of important factors: weather, timing and media exposure. Our stuff was stolen during some of our monsoon storms and high heat advisory days, which bought us a little time. And as soon as the theft was brought to my attention we went into "war emergency power" mode. But without the media attention both wings would be gone by now.

Our theft case began as a "yawner" in the eyes of law enforcement - and that's NOT to fault 'em for their position and we received EXCELLENT help from three area law enforcement agencies on this matter. These guys and gals in blue were magnificent. But the simple fact of the matter is this... our call began as a theft case with three individual police reports on one theft involving three different people. All of this was done over the phone - call, leave a number, and the PD calls you back. All they want to know is when the items were taken, what did they look like, and their approximate replacement value. That's it. Dispassionate? Maybe. But law enforcement sees this happen on a grand scale each and every day - and they're saturated to the point they can't place any more emphasis on the theft of airplane parts than a spool of copper in an electrical contractor's truck, a stick of copper from a plumber or an aluminum washtub from Grandma's yard.

Law enforcement intially suspected another aero bug as the thief. I explained to them and to the media that the aviation community is like a family, albeit one big dysfunctional family at times. We all seem to know who is working on what, and we may not all like each other or agree on how paint is applied or data plates apply to restorations verus originality or how something is operated. And we may have friends and those who dislike us for whatever reason in this community. But in the end, we all rally together and watch out for one another. Like any family, we have our ups and downs but it's hard to keep secrets from one another.

That said, the obvious culprit was a piece of living fecal matter known as the "metal thief."

Our case would still be sitting on an overworked detective's desk, had it not been for calls placed to the media to report the theft of some unique items. I equated it to fishing - you toss in a line, and sometimes you get a nibble. I was lucky - the fish I caught with my e-mailed "press release" was the two daily newspapers and the television station.

They are the ones who got the word out in the PHX metro area, and I suspect the following day when our detective walked into the office a sergeant asked him just what case he was working on that had appeared in the paper and on TV, and what the status was at that point.

Lucky, lucky, lucky. The calls started rolling in, and eventually our "Fred" appeared. While he told us he had no direct involvement in the theft and had heard third-place the events of what had happened, he didn't want to have law enforcement examining his life under a microscope. He did his good deed for the day, and wasn't interested in a reward other than to indicate he'll surface one of these days, introduce himself and Pooner will have to tip a beer bottle or two with him. That's a given. As far as the police are concerned, they're still hoping for prosecution of whomever was directly involved. Roger that on this end.

The end result? Well, it cost me a cell phone (talked one quite literally to death after hours of traffic and slamming down in frustration), several days away from work and family, three tanks of gas in the truck and a lot of lost sleep. That and case of beer, which was dented last night at home quietly toasting ya'll who helped out on this thing directly or indirectly.

The PV wing has some minor damage as you know via Chris' commentary but is repairable. The T-33 wing owned by Wingspan was not damaged, and the trailer lost a license plate and VIN tag and light harness plug.

If I can impart words of wisdom to anyone here, it's this... watch your stuff, and if at all possible hide it away from the prying eyes of the mongrel hoardes. They're out there lurking and looking for an easy kill as we speak. Out of sight, out of mind. Photograph your stuff for your records. And get to know your local scrapyards. These people will either help you or hinder you. When our stuff went AWOL I called each one in the Valley to report my loss ( I now know there's about 80 places that sell scrap here in both counties). Most are run by legitimate people who cooperate fully with the laws, but there are some scumbags in there, too. I have a personal score to settle with one proprietor in PHX who told me if "he didn't buy it someone else most certainly would" and the only motivation he had in helping someone out was if "he came out ahead at the end of the day."

And man, if God forbid someone takes your stuff, sing like a little canary to anyone who'll listen. Be polite, be insistant, and be a pest. And hopefully, you'll get lucky.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 5:01 pm 
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Pooner wrote:
I have a personal score to settle with one proprietor in PHX who told me if "he didn't buy it someone else most certainly would" and the only motivation he had in helping someone out was if "he came out ahead at the end of the day."

One would assume that the Police would be interested in knowing who that is so that can go straight there next time some metal gets lifted... :wink:

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:27 pm 
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Hi,
I'm glad you got your parts back Pooner. Sorry to hear about the B-24 and hangar Mark. If there is such thing as karma maybe the thieves will be blowing their ill gotten gains up in Cairns and get attacked by the jellies !!! :twisted:
I was hit this past fall by metal crooks as well. I have the front half of NC-121K 141292 and two Conex boxes with all sorts of parts I've collected over the years sitting over the wooded hill from my parents house ( I work as a traveling utility surveyor, so I stay at my parents when I'm in town ). My version of Gary's petting zoo is visible across a farm field from the road about 100 yards away with a cable fence/gate blocking vehicle access. One day I found the cable cut and one of my containers cut open (they cut the hasp around the lock, so watch out if you a container). They drove in while I was off working and stole two generators as well as my jet fighter tail hook (250lbs!). PO ed was a understatement! Luckily they hit my almost empty trailer that was being cleaned/painted. I called the county police who responded quickly to take the report. They made a serious effort to find my stuff and told me to keep a close eye on things in case the crooks tried for another load (I still had some de milled radomes stored behind the trailers on pallets). I installed a wireless alarm system with motion detectors just to be sure. Low and behold, the crooks were nice/stupid enough to come back for more the next Tuesday night setting of the alarm inside the house. I caught two of them almost to the road with one of my nose cones ( 200+lbs but almost all fiberglass, dumb #*@*). I had a double barrel 12 and managed to get one on the ground while the other ran (With only two rounds against a unknown number I didn't want to risk firing a warning shot). The one I caught was crying/begging not to get capped especially after Dad drove up, pulled out his pistol and said "move out of the way and let me shoot the SOB" (Even I wasn't sure if he was going to or not, so I know the guy thought he was a goner). Needless to say, he was REAL happy to see the police arrive and be arrested. The cops were all grins about finally getting to arrest one of the jerks. :supz:
The case officer tracked down the hook, still intact at the scrap yard where I picked it up. My generators are still MIA because I didn't have the serial numbers written down ( lesson for everybody, document you stuff !!!). The DA / courts will probably let them go but at least I cured those two from hitting me again ( I imagine looking at the wrong end of a 12 gauge might have left an impression !!). :enforcer:

Sorry for the long story but I though some of you might find it interesting.

Cheers everybody, :drink3:
Brian


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 Post subject: Brian's recovery
PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 4:06 pm 
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Location: Mesa, Arizona USA
Wow, Brian!

You're certainly a hero in my book - your dad as well. I'm sending out some "positive waves" for you as well on the return of your generators and any other equipment that it will turn up.

I must say I admire your restraint, as quite honestly and with no bravado or posturing whatsoever I can tell you I have no idea what I would have done in your shoes having encountered the theft in progress and having the culprits in front of me.

It's been an interesting year out here for us as well. We had a cockpit section taken from us and sold to an unsuspecting individual back in December of last year, and there is still no legal resolution to this issue.

It's been a bad year for B-24 related parts out here as well - two weeks prior to Yankee Air Museum taking delivery of our PB4Y-2 tail section some knothead decided to attack it with a cutting torch in the middle of the night and left gaping holes in what had been a nicely preserved and intact tail section. Other items to have turned up missing with this included two -4Y engine fairings, a complete C-47 cargo door and even a few heavy recip engine turbochargers. Again, more theft and damage to have to deal with.

We've seen a pattern of loss and have done a 180 degree turn on how we now protect things, store them, acquire, etc. Still, we're still stinging from these repeat beatings and at some point a person either just gives up and resigns themselves to whatever happens, or they get a little nastier and less-forgiving. I won't speak for others in our circle, but I am certainly jaded by it and have become really testy and dark spirited.

I'm just fortunate that our issue played out like it did, as I think something really tragic would have happened had I been faced with your situation as presented. As I ponder it now, whatever instant Karma I think might have handed out would have doomed what we do. Kind of hard to spend money on airplanes restoration and preservation when I'd be playing the game of feeding the lawyers...

Just a thought. And best wishes here on a recovery of your final missing items.


Last edited by Pooner on Mon Jul 21, 2008 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 5:08 pm 
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Hi Pooner,
The guy is just real lucky I didn't catch him coming out of my Connie. He was already safely away to jail when I found out they had torn down a temp wall and climbed into my fuselage half (the cutoff area is covered by a tarp). They didn't damage anything, just rooted around looking for heavy stuff to swipe. If I had caught them doing that, I think the only thing that would have kept my finger still would have been possible buckshot holes in my "girl". He had also laid down a tomahawk to carry off the radome. If he had been holding it, well something loud and messy might have happened. I used to work at a shooting range so I'm pretty sure I would have hit my target. I'm just glad I didn't have to. I can understand people needing money, but there are other ways to get it ( it's called work!! ). I just wish I had a tape of the BS stories the guy was giving to keep me from blasting him. My favorite; " My buddy told me that his uncle gave him the stuff, I didn't know we were stealing .....etc, etc". I tore him a new one like the "Gunny", "Your're here in the middle of the night with no lights or vehicle, didn't know you were stealing my big butt!!". (they had cell phones to call for the getaway truck). Then he started about having a wife and family, I told him he should have thought about them before he came back risking his life to steal more of my stuff.
I don't know if his brush with the "ever after" changed his behavior, but I'm quite sure he will not be back to bother me again. Hopefully everyone who reads this will review the safety and security of their stuff so they can prevent problems or be ready for them if they happen. The generators are long gone since I didn't have any pictures or ser numbers, so everybody, document what you have!!

Cheers
Brian


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:05 pm 
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Kudzu wrote:
I had a double barrel 12 and managed to get one on the ground while the other ran (With only two rounds against a unknown number I didn't want to risk firing a warning shot).
Brian


Mossberg 590, then you can fire a couple of warning shots & still have 7 left to make them wonder what happened to their bowel control...

Talking of which.. about 11.30 last night I let my pup out, then I hear a gunshot... fearing the worse I head out the door with the 590 & a maglite. I worry about my pup because there's a bit of wildlife in the lineage & people can react a bit odd at times...
Found the pup unharmed & pinching one off in the bushes. Then 3 of the other neighbors appear to check on their horses... & all the neighbors were armed. No idea who fired that shot, but of they were still around when we all showed up to find out just WTF happened I'm assuming they won't do it again.



This is what 145lb of "a bit of wildlife in the lineage" looks like..
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:22 pm 
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Those are typical stories nowadays. Besides the lowly thieves, the unscrupulous scrap buyers are just as much to blame.

We are currently living in our commercial/industrial building while waiting to find a buyer. I am afraid that if we were to leave it empty that the copper thieves would break in quickly and steal everything. That happened to the building across the street a couple of years ago.

Les


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:29 pm 
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We recently had a rash of thefts of manhole covers around here. Apparently, despite the fact that they had "City of Battle Creek" cast into them, the scrappers still bought them. :roll:

Although it's reached epidemic proportions, the phenomenon is nothing new. About 20 years ago I worked in an old shopping cart factory. The company had built a new plant in the industrial park, and the old plant downtown was used mostly for storage of old machinery, including a lot of spot welders. We constanly had people breaking in and stealing copper electrodes and transformer windings from the machines, as well as stripping copper wiring out of the conduits (some of which were still live!) Thankfully, the old firetrap has since been torn down.

Aprapos of nothing..I was listening to a discussion on alternative auto fuels the other night. They said that electric cars really aren't a practical solution on large scale, due to the amount of copper that would be needed for the motors.

SN


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:38 pm 
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There was a video out not too long ago, of Military Ops on a desert target range. The exercise was stopped a couple of times because scrappers were entering the range illegally to scavange spent brass and other scrap. Interupting the excercise and risking their lives. The report said most of the time when they're caught they are illegal immigrants.

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