Warbird Information Exchange

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In Australia the term "Japanese" does not seem to hold the same derrogatory connotation it may have universally had during the war, athough "nip" and "tojo" was just as "popular" at the time in Australia to decribe the enemy.

It would seem the term may well retain its "insulting" and "hurtful" interpretations and applications elsewhere but Australian slang shortens names etc as a matter of course, kiwis, poms, yanks, aussies and even Japanese tend to be used in common language as affectionate or shorthand labels rather than insults.

Growing up my surname was shortened to "pilko" at school along side smithy, thommo, jacko, johno, porta, wilko etc as was the habit, even today in a totally unrelated group of people someone will derive that same shorthand nickname without any historical link to my school days, simply due to this universal Australian past-time.

Even on the warbirdz forum you will find a poster called simmo, and again some people who spontaneously shorten the names of others in the forum.

Today in Australia I would consider the term "Japanese" is used simply as a natural abbreviation of a nationality, and other than by perhaps a small core of WW2 veterans I dont think it would be used as an intended "insult" , obviously it really depends how it is "intended" by the user. but also "received" and "perceived" by the recepient that defines it as a racial slur.

A term that is not politically correct in Australia is "wog", used as a derrogatory term in the 1950's relating to the influx of european immigrants, it remains an unacceptable term today, yet again in my school days, my friends of second generation italian, greek, macedonian etc decent would happily call each other "wogs" without concern as they effectively ignored its hurtful intent, of course it was not appropriate for me to use the same term without expecting it to be treated as an insult.

Growing up in a town with such high levels of oversea's immigrants, and having them and their families as friends I fully understood how hurtful such a label could be.

Interestingly the european immigrants and their off-spring developed a nickname for the existing Australian population as a comeback to the slur of "wog", calling us "skippy's" and I have been on the receiving end of such "taunts".

But proving the argument that calling people such things are in the eye of the beholder, I know I never felt much harm from being called a "skippy" nor recall anyone else having a different view?

In the 1960's we had an inane Australian TV show with the major character being "skippy" the Kangaroo, obviously most of us identify such a term with that image, and while it might not be an ideal or flattering compliment, its hard to see it as an insult that will cause hurt and anger.

Obviously Australia's cultural isolation can result in different attitudes to overseas in the use of certain words.

I know we allow far more "colourful" language in the street and on the television, than many other developed countries and modern civilised societies, I am not saying our approach is correct, simply explaining we are different.

Given Australian's natural language to shorten names without any malice intended, I suspect given wixlova's similar "aussie" background his own use of the term above was simply based on this Australian habit rather than an intended slur

regards

Mark Pilkington

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20th Century - The Age of Manned Flight
"from Wrights to Armstrong in 66 years -WOW!"

Mark,

Never having been to your wonderful country I will take your word for it.

In North America "Japanese" is derogatory in almost all contexts.

Once as a callow and careless youth, I used the short form "Paki" thoughtlessly, and it cost me a friend. (Is that, too, an acceptable short form in Australia?) Good friends in this world are valuable. One, in a lifetime, is too many to lose to one's own stupid, thoughtless bigotry. I wished I could have that one back, but I grew up a bit because of it and have not uttered a racially derogatory word in the many years since then.

There are some young folk on this board, and youth will often be callow. Then there are some older folk who should know better, but perhaps they have not yet lost a friend; perhaps they're not at much risk of it, because they don't have friends who look or think differently than they; or perhaps they don't value friends so much. Whether they ever learn their lesson or not, I've learned mine.

August

Was it their duty to murder helpless Prisoners of War? Was it their duty to rape Chinese, Korean and other women? Was it their duty to expose POWs and Chinese civilians to extreme cold, and dissect them with out anesthesia, or before they had died? Was it their duty to open American Servicemen's chests without anesthesia, and remove the beating heart? Was it their duty to murder Philippinos for supporting those who were trying to free them?

No- their duty was to fight and kill, die or live Honorably, and for that they may be called pleasant names. What they did do in the name of their Bushido Code was so disgusting, the term for them should be as well. "Japanese" is about the nicest thing I can call them- for that specific period of time.

Looking at facts without using the lens of the period in which events occurred is about the same as revisionist history. They were that way then, and deserved the term. Those who allowed it to be done in their name as well. Those who survived the era, and had not been direct party to the abominations committed, and those alive today, were no longer the same, and not "Japanese" Ignorance is judging a period of time through the view of your own time, and not looking beyond your own limited frame of reference. People thought and lived differently. They were not the enlightened individuals we pretend to be now. The veneer of civilization on man is still sufficiently thin that our worst ways still show through.

Robbie

Sorta like B-25s straffing 100s of survivors from sunken transports during the "Battle of the Bismark Sea", B-29s firebombing Japanese cites or the total destruction of Dresden? How many civilians were killed in WWII by allied bombing attacks???

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Don't touch my junk!!

If you can ever access our cricket coverage by radio or television you will see such terms happily used in full broadcast, without the intent to offend, and the apparant acceptance by the kiwis and poms, I cannot vouch for personally for the term "paki", we have a pakington street in my local city which is universally slanged as "pako" street (without any reference to a nationality, but 'paki" is a natural abbreviation for us to make.) but I guess the point I am making is that slang abbreviations remain in common use and largely accepted, unless it is considered to be offensive by the recepients.

As an example "In the last match of the season, we managed to see one of the best Innings played at our home ground when Azam plundered the Marian bowlers to notch the first 100 ever by a Paki Eagle." taken from the official website of the Pakistan Australian Association Cricket Club.

http://www.pakeagles.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=28&Itemid=41

or "If I was to pick a moment that sticks in my mind it was the 149* record stand with alfie against the paki's at hobart." taken from Cricket Australia's official website.

http://www.cricket.com.au/default.aspx?s=newsdisplay&id=40725

As I said its in common use, and not intended to be derrogatory, and I assume the Pakistani immigrants in the local cricket association, or the National Team dealing with Cricket Australia accept such use to be good natured.

regards

Mark Pilkington

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20th Century - The Age of Manned Flight
"from Wrights to Armstrong in 66 years -WOW!"

They started it. We did everything in our power to finish it. But we never had troops raping and murdering with official sanction(and when it did occur, was punishable by imprisonment or death), we never experimented on the prisoners we held. The firebombing raids were a response to the fact that Japanese industry was not centralized as ours was, but rather existed in the homes of the local population for the smaller production works. We deprived the workforce of their facilities, and the facilities of their workforce. I have no trouble sleeping over that, or the use of the atomic bomb, which I noticed you did not mention Why not? Weren't Hiroshima and Nagasaki just as terrible? Killing civilians in war happens. Organized torture, murder and rape is not supposed to. The civil populace of a country at war, those who support their country, and supply its munitions, equipment, weapons, vehicles, ships, aircraft, everything used to conduct their war, is a fair target. Including the so-called civilians. As they say- you can kill them, but you can't eat them. Or disect or experiment on them.

What is done is done.

Robbie

I was going to write something else but figured why. I can walk on water but if it's more than a couple thousands of an inch, I sink. How do so many manage not to?

I use inflatable booties... Combined with my ego, I'm pretty buoyant...

lol

Robbie

I've seen more than one bar brawl kick off with Aussies when someone has mentioned the Royal Aboriginal Air Force...

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Those who possess real knowledge are rare.

Those who can set that knowledge into motion in the physical world are rarer still.

The few who possess real knowledge and can set it into motion of their own hands are the rarest of all.

C'mon, so us firebombing Japanese cities after we realized how fanatical they were in WW2 was the wrong move? Should we have just sat in the war for another 3 or 4 years and invaded Japan costing them and us millions of casualties? Would that have been better?

War is Hell.......Plain and freaking simple.

You totally get me wrong has it was the correct thing to do. Has wasdropping the A-bombs. My only point that killing of non-combants and senseless brutality occurred on both sides. We had a good family friend who fought on Bouganville and New Guinea. He said that the jungle turns you into a animal. He said they lots of chances to take prisonors but took none, But, he added, we took alot of ears and had some good bayonet practice.
1 cousin killed by the Japanese, 1 by the Germans and 1 by the Chinese at Choisen. I suppose I could hate if I worked hard at it but life is to short. I just don't see them has Japanese, slants or Nazis just people.

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Don't touch my junk!!

Exactly- That is what I have been saying- They WERE those things. That was then. Now they are NOT those things. However those who did what they did then, will always be that- when referring to that period. During a war it is essential to dehumanize your enemy in your mind for the period of fighting. To see them as human may cost you your life. Until they are wounded, until they are captured or dead, they must be an anathema to you- something inhuman, evil and without your pity. Yes, it would be nice to see them as people, and all the other peacenik claptrap, but during a war they must remain the Enemy until defeated. They will view you the same way- and your act of Christian charity(or other religion equivalent if one is available) could kill you with your own kindness by giving them an opportunity to get within your armor and strike as you try to help them because you saw them as human.

Robbie

I would kindly suggest that the Vietnam Memorial would be miles long if it weren't for the "peacenik claptrap" that was instrumental in ending the war.

Japan, as a military and as a country, were savages in WWII, far beyond the limits of civilized warfare. And I don't think they have fully apologized or paid reparations since.
The question is how far into the future does this guilt follow? Jack's wife was obviously not directly responsible for these horrors. How many generations to cleanse the memories, or reset the count?
Jack is your wife fully Japanese, ie born there? How about her family? Or they American born of Japanese descent? Maybe you could tell us on WIX how she and her family feel about these WWII matters if you have discussed it.

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Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK

I would also suggest that the wall would be much SHORTER if the military had been able to conduct the war as they knew it should and had not been hamstrung by the politicians.