Warbird population in 30 years

[daveymac82c]

I've gotten into this conversation a little late, and it's quite interesting.

I agree that warbirds are a tiny drop in the bucket when it comes to pollution causing global warming, but if everything in general aviation changes while the warbird community holds true, there probably won't be a very good infrastructure to support warbirds and other die-hard petrol burners.

Is there the possibility of some people converting their airplanes to a different propulsion system? Sort of like how some warbirds have "non-orginal" powerplants in order to have a more reliable engine or an engine with more readily available parts.

Do you think there would be people out there converting their P-51's to Hydrogen, or Hybrid, or 100% Electric? Seeing as how cars are starting to do that already, maybe planes will follow.

I'm just putting that idea out there. I don't suport it, but it could very well become a reality. I myself don't want to see warbirds converted. I love them as original, snorting, coughing, burping internal combustion powered airplanes.

What I do see happening with general aviation though, is an eventual transition to diesels, hybrids and electic powered airplanes. For new built airplanes that's not really a problem, but for all the C-172's out there, it might be the beginning of a major conversion industry. Obviously we're not at the point of any alternatives being viable, but with constantly improving battery and motor technology, I could see experimental electric airplanes and/or hybrids taking to the air over the next few years.

Cheers,

David

[Bill Greenwood]

Rick, When I get to be Fuhrer, I mean President. some things will be different. I was contemplating a ban on all jets, after we reopen the Merlin production lines. But I have met some nice guys on WIX who own jets, so we may keep a few. However there will be a major biofuel program. As a matter if fact I'll appoint Willie Nelson as Head, and I do mean Head of the Biofuel Transportation Dept. There are three main benefits, a Raptor may still damage your hearing, but it sure will smell a lot better. And we won't need any nasty bombs anymore. A few low level flights over a hostile population and they will be in a much better mood. Instead of shooting at our soldiers,they'll be inviting them in for cookies. Finally there will be more dino juice available for the rest of the great vintage warbirds.

Last edited by Bill Greenwood on Sat Dec 08, 2007 1:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[daveymac82c]

Awww Man....

I wish I could vote in the US. I like all of your campaign promises!!!

Bill, want to move to Canada? Don't worry we'll find a way of keeping you and your Spit warm. Maybe we'll build you a giant igloo.

-David

[DoraNineFan]

Is there the possibility of some people converting their airplanes to a different propulsion system? Sort of like how some warbirds have "non-orginal" powerplants in order to have a more reliable engine or an engine with more readily available parts.

Do you think there would be people out there converting their P-51's to Hydrogen, or Hybrid, or 100% Electric? Seeing as how cars are starting to do that already, maybe planes will follow.

We still have coal, and a few museums and private individuals operate antique coal/steam locomotives for enthusiasts. So I can see warbirds operated the same way if there is a supply of 100LL around and regulation or insurance does not ground them.

If 100LL becomes unavailable, it's probably much less expensive to convert the existing powerplants to alcohol/ethanol/butanol than to develop an entirely new engine. You could run an engine on hydrogen, or you can introduce hydrogen into the mixture for a better burn and more fuel economy, but it will add complexity. Those who have toyed with the idea of new production engines should probably take alternate fuels into consideration, too. Just my opinion, though.

[daveymac82c]

We still have coal, and a few museums and private individuals operate antique coal/steam locomotives for enthusiasts. So I can see warbirds operated the same way if there is a supply of 100LL around and regulation or insurance does not ground them.

If 100LL becomes unavailable, it's probably much less expensive to convert the existing powerplants to alcohol/ethanol/butanol than to develop an entirely new engine. You could run an engine on hydrogen, or you can introduce hydrogen into the mixture for a better burn and more fuel economy, but it will add complexity. Those who have toyed with the idea of new production engines should probably take alternate fuels into consideration, too. Just my opinion, though.

Good point. I just wonder how the price of it will change. If we consider economics and all that supply and demand stuff we might be able to see how prices will change. Considering, as you say, that coal is still available for railroad enthusiasts, I suppose there will still be some 100LL available.

With most people not using 100LL anymore, will 100LL be extremely expensive because of the limited supply? OR, will it be cheaper because of the limited demand?

And given this possibility, I wonder how the price of 100LL in 30 years will compare to now.

-David

[daveymac82c]

OOPS a double post.

-David

Last edited by daveymac82c on Sun Dec 09, 2007 12:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[muddyboots]

Let me get this out of the wqay first,... Muddy, I didn't take a shot at Bill or anybody else. I would expect that on a lot of things you and Bill see things a lot closer to the way ALGore does than some of the rest of us. Someone else brought up global warming and suggested that Bill give him a ride, probably to show Al that warbirds aren't bad, This goes back to another thread where Bill suggested that giving the occasional ride can go a long way to disarming anti airport miscreants. The shot was directed at AlGore, not because of his political leanings but because he's gotten so, um, LARGE. Bill has a strict weight limit for the back seat of the Spitfire and Al don't cut it ! Bill's right, Tipper may make it, which brings us back to the original ulterior motive aviation statement. " Wanna see my airplane, little girl" ? unfortunately Tipper would probably be more impressed with the shiny new G-5 parked next to the Spit at Aspen.

So that Hellcat doesn't get upset with me for answering, as to Biofuels issue for jets; certification is being done as we speak. The USAF recently ran some tests on a Biojet fuel using a B-52. The first flights involved flying a B-52 with only a couple of engines running on the biojet. Subsequent flights were flown with ALL engines running on the stuff. Apparently it worked just fine and the USAF is having a bunch of the stuff brewed up for further acceptance testing. The airlines and the FAA are watching closely.

As far as oils are concerned, 120 wt or 60wt ( if you're using the new scale ) is getting harder to find. Phillips is making the multigrade but I don't know how widely available it is, I've never seen it in drums, only plastic jugs.

My apology to all and sundry should have specifically included you, Randy. I've had one of the worst months of my life (worse than any wound I ever took) and it's made me...violently unwilling to take any BS from people. Looking back I can see that I was being uber paranoid, and you were making an innocent joke. Again, my apologies I hope I can reign myself in so this doesn't happen again> I didn't realize how angry I am at the world, and you certainly didn't deserve my torpedo.

[RickH]

It's Rick but what the heck, I've answered to worse ! Don't worry about it, I'm sorry that you have had it so tough. Hope 2008 goes better for you.

[Randy Haskin]

Offended, Rick?

[muddyboots]

Whoops! My deep seated hatred for Randy (based on his being a fancy pants Air Force type) has translated into a nasty streak towards Rick! (based on his obvious relationship to Randy based on the first letter of your names)

Dang. I'm going to be apologizing to everybody on WIX before long. Randy, meet Rick. Rick, meet Randy. All you pilot types look alike to me, so please excuse me. (Big watch, little ****, looking for a place to cash a check)

[RickH]

Not at all, I'm honored to be included with such esteemed company !

[corsairdude]

Into the Future (2075):

Space Shuttle 51: " Tower, Space Shuttle 51, 25.000feet, on long final".
Tower: " Space Shuttle 51, you are clear to land following a C-47 on
short final ".

Oldie but goodie.

[daveymac82c]

So true!

-David