TO Cal fires

[ZRX61]

Since the gutting of the large tanker fleet the air assets are simply too few to make a difference. Oh well, they are saving money!

The fleet here in Cali currently working the fires is NINETY aircraft, how many more would you suggest we need?

[muddyboots]

how many can we get into the air at one time? Considering that we have lost 2,000 homes and what, a million people had to evacuate, I'd say we coul better afford a better number of aircraft than the billions this one is going to cost in the end. But of course, it's not the federal governments job to protect people. That's the police

[ZRX61]

Might help matters in the future if city/county planning depts actually tried to THINK about where they allow new homes to be built...

& then we have people who say "why on earth build in the same place after this fire/quake/mudslide happened???"

Because they HAVE to build in the same place. If you owe $400K on a $500K home that burns down & the insurance pays out the owner STILL has to pay the morgage on that particular property. You can't "take the money & run" unless you own the place free & clear..

We have christ knows how many new homes being built where I live & we don't have the water to supply the ones that are already here..
"well sure you can build a home right there, just don't expect any plumbing..."

[mustanglover]

Building out in these cities is a big problem, but the biggest problem is the last 50 or so years with Smokey the Bear in the picture.

Putting out every fire over this time frame has caused a huge amount of fuel to be built up in under growth and over growth. Over growth refers to the extra trees now full grown in a forest that would have been wiped out in a normal forest fire.

Prescribed burning is very important and should be done more often.

[bluethunder28]

Since the gutting of the large tanker fleet the air assets are simply too few to make a difference. Oh well, they are saving money!

The fleet here in Cali currently working the fires is NINETY aircraft, how many more would you suggest we need?

Most of those are choppers and SEATS. CA has NO large planes. All large planes are out of state.

[ZRX61]

Building out in these cities is a big problem, but the biggest problem is the last 50 or so years with Smokey the Bear in the picture.

Putting out every fire over this time frame has caused a huge amount of fuel to be built up in under growth and over growth. Over growth refers to the extra trees now full grown in a forest that would have been wiped out in a normal forest fire.

Prescribed burning is very important and should be done more often.

Doesn't help matters when the envirowackos prevent the clearing of dead trees & others infested with bark beetles. I can see HUGE patches of dead trees in the mountains around LA, no one is allowed to take em out...

[muddyboots]

Building out in these cities is a big problem, but the biggest problem is the last 50 or so years with Smokey the Bear in the picture.

Putting out every fire over this time frame has caused a huge amount of fuel to be built up in under growth and over growth. Over growth refers to the extra trees now full grown in a forest that would have been wiped out in a normal forest fire.

Prescribed burning is very important and should be done more often.

Fighting fires here has been likened to the Germans at Stalingrad. As long as they were on the steppes they could fight a battle of manuever. Once into Stalingrad it turned into a house by house fight. Firefighters here have the problem of being expected to save every structure regardless of what happens in the big picture.

Overgrowth of brush isn't the big deal everyone thinks it is here. There are less "wppdlines" than elsewhere. Much of the brush in this down south here is creasote and that crap burns like gasoline. It's mostly inabilty to maeuver and linited resources. When you hear of homeowners not clearing brush around their houses, it means actual live growth mostly. Dead growth doesn't last long due to the nature of the climate and the growth itself. (I am no expert but I do spend a lot of time stomping around in it)

Last edited by muddyboots on Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[bdk]

As Calif. fires burned, copters grounded

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/wildfires_grounded_aircraft

[Canso42]

Digger,
Thanks for the 'Always' clip. N9505C lookin' good! I know the Mars boats can handle it but it would really get me all choked up to see old Tanker 85 join the fray.

Canso42

[Larry Kraus]

Butler's two DC-7s that are usually are on the Oregon State contracts are working in Southern Cal.We came down to Fox Field (Lancaster) on Monday and went to work on the Witch Fire on Tuesday with a couple of loads each for Tanker 62 and T66 with a reload in San Bernardino and recovering to Fox.

On Wednesday,we both worked the Santiago Fire in Orange County near the old MCAS base at El Toro.I flew 9 loads in T62 and Brian Lash flew 8 in T66.My last one was at a half hour after sunset.The flames are easy to see,but the terrain gets interesting.The reload base is San Bernardino.We flew two loads to the Harris Fire by Tiajuana late yesterday and recovered in Victorville.Its getting smokey.

I have to go fly again out of Victorville this time.We're here with the DC-10.I just got a quick tour of the DC-10.Pretty impressive! I'm going back to the Santiago Fire along with T66.

[Jack Cook]

Keep up the good work Larry!!!!!

[Ztex]

Pictures of Larry going to work...over on FC...

http://www.fencecheck.com/forums/photography.php/topic,2576.msg164996.html#msg164996

Take care out there Larry.

[Larry Kraus]

Thanks for the link to Fence Check,Zane.There are some good shots of T62 and T66.We both ended up back at the Santiago Fire today along with P-3's T00 and T27 and several P-2's,including T06,T43,T44 and a couple of others that were released from the Slide Fire because of smoke problems there.Today the main objective was to protect the repeater stations and antenna complexes on Santiago Mountain and a lower peak to its west that I forget the name of.At least our drop area was free of smoke until evening.

Speaking of smoke,the last couple of days flying out of San Bernardino to the Santiago and Harris Fires has been a lot like my 3.5 hr. DC-7 IFR Type Recurrency ride that I took with the FAA in April,except that the airplane is 27,000 lbs heavier and I get to play tanker pilot half way through.It definitely requires some good CRM with a 2 man crew.At least it gets a little easier when you can anticipate the next frequency change for radar sectors, the controllers know what to expect from us,and I know the names of the local landmarks.

Today we flew a load of retardant out of our new home base at Victorville (ex-George AFB).Then 3 reloads at San Bernardino (SBD) and recovered at VCV for the night.Victorville reminds me a lot of my former home base of Moses Lake,Wa. (MWH),which was the former Larson AFB where most of the early testing of B-47's took place 60 years ago.Nothing like a 15,000 ft runway to make life interesting.At both bases,the "short" runway is over 10,000 ft long.

I have to give a lot of credit to the controllers at So. Cal Approach.They've really been doing a great job of keeping us (tanker pilots) out of trouble in marginal conditions in some pretty congested airspace.I haven't worked down south of SBD much in the last 4 years,but I'm beginning to get reoriented.The last time that I spent any time down here was in 2003 when we worked for a couple of weeks out of Porterville (PTV),Fox (WJF) and San Bernardino on the last major outbreak of fires in Southern California.

[bluethunder28]

Saw you flying out of SBD today. Can't miss the sound of those engines!

[Flat 12x2]

Video of Larry's Tanker 62 taking off loaded for work. Take care Larry.
Turn the sound UP
http://media.putfile.com/DC-7-Air-Attack-Water-Bomber-takeoff

Also Martin Mars coming in to land in So Cal. Keep the sound up .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JPFVfT5-wo