U.S. bomb kills 3 British soldiers in Afghanistan

[JDK]

I'm not about to argue that the US DoD has always been an open and faithful partner to allies -- they haven't. However, based on what little experience I have with NATO over the last couple years, I think it is just the same way that the military departments of other countries also look out for their own interests first before those of their allies.

Very fair point Randy. (Like the others.) Again, as I said before, given the relative size and thus weight of US forces to other allies, all other things being equal, this is going to result in more issues highlighting US involvement than others.

I'd also like to point out that I was not criticising front line or active military people's inter-service co-operation. As Randy knows, we see the best and the worst of that co-operation there, and in the nature of combat we always will. However I was criticising (perhaps unfairly) the direction of US policy as set by the Pentagon and thus senior US military leaders.

As James D said, it's good to be able to discuss this, and I appreciate (yet again) Randy's level-headed input despite his closer involvement than mine to the topic.

Regards,

[CH2Tdriver]

Quote:
Ian Davidson, the Labour MP for Glasgow South West and a member of the public accounts committee, said the delay had been partly down to a failure to agree technical standards for communications systems with the US military "A lot of the difficulty seems to be in co-ordinating with the Americans, especially given their more gung-ho style," he said.

Several British service personnel in Afghanistan echoed those concerns privately. "I just can't figure out how this has happened - how do you tell the families they were killed by supposed allies?" one soldier told The Scotsman.

Another said: "Whenever I hear we have American jets overhead, I get f****** worried. They just don't seem to know what they are doing a lot of the time."

A third said: "They have a different approach to us - they fire first and think later." end quote/


There are stereotypes that will never go away. Americans will always be "cowboys", but then there is the "By-the-Book" Brits mentality that rears it's head from time to time.

Remember the scene in Band of Brothers Operation Market Garden Episode? The american soldier knows where the German tank is and requests that the British tank crew fire into a building where the tank is hiding. The tank commander refuses. The hidden German Panzers and Tigers romped all over the British tanks, who were under orders to not fire until they had visuals on the enemy, so as "not to destroy private property". The Germans simply remained hidden and engaged in a turkey shoot. Easy had to retreat. Of the 506th, 180 were killed and 560 wounded. Of the entire 101st, 750 were killed and 1,500 wounded.


Then there is the scene in A Bridge Too Far:
Maj. Julian Cook: Those are British troops at Arnhem. They're hurt bad. And you're just gonna sit here... and... drink tea?

[Randy Haskin]

Glad to see it is possible to discuss this topic after all.

Has it not been possible to discuss in the past?

I think we've had several good discussions here on WIX about current-day close air support, fratricide, and accidental killing of civilians. This one is really no different. Personally, I'm glad to be able to sort of discuss the incident now, although there is still much that I can't talk about specifically.

On another note, here is a direct link to the first part of Episode 4 of the Ross Kemp show:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7D8Pih1 ... re=related

[Ed L]

Excellent vid.

Ed

[muddyboots]

I was somewhat stunned to read that British Infantrymen were afraid of US bombs. Since the early days of CAS we've been in the position of begging guys like Randy to help us (not always successfully). If he and his crew don't dig them out, it means WE have to, at a tremendous cost in casualties. I cannot imagine any infantryman complaining about a mistake--not publicly. We might cry with each other, but when the sun comes up, I suspect we'd be all smiles and cheers if simply out of fear that we'd LOSE that CAS. Accidents happen and we are aware they do, and we call it in knowing that it might drop short or whatever. We still call it in. That should give you a sense of how important guys like Randy are to grunts. During WWII it was much more common, and men WERE bitter about their losses. But they still cheered when those pampered princes came in and took out positions the grunts couldn't take iwthout serious loss.

This is British muckraking. I'm sur ethe press THINK they'r on somethig good. But I doubt the grunts agree.

Thanks again Randy. The kids I led ten years ago are leading their own crop of children these days. And you're keeping them ALL safe. I was greatful ten years ago for all you guys did, and I'll be greatful in ten years time for what you do. Close Air Support is and always will be the angel over our shoulder.