B-25 Bombardier Floor Window

[Ken]

If you like B-25s you must see this link:

http://www.warwingsart.com/12thAirForce/page.html

Follow to the photos of planes link - there are roughly 16 pages of amazing (some color) photos of 12th AF B-25s, including the original Miss Mitchell and Briefing Time. Only a precious few show the (lack of) the nose floor window and the arrangement of the foward-firing .50's alongside the bombardier.

[Ken]

Some great B-25 info and photos here worthy of a bump.

[Fight2FlyPhoto]

Yes, that looks like it. The photos bring up another interesting difference - those must be C or D models, right -- I'm not used to seeing the navigator's side windows convex vs. flush (as in the Doolittle airplanes). Remind me again how you can tell a C from a D visually. And to further confuse matters, don't some late C's and D's sport Clayton exhausts instead of rings (as these do).

Ken

Here are some shots to compare a B-25D "Grumpy" to a B-25J-25 "Buster."


20110424_140 by fight2flyphoto, on Flickr


20110424_167 by fight2flyphoto, on Flickr

One of the first differences you'll notice is the placement of the top gun turret, and the lack of a tail gun on the B-25D.


Part 2 045 by fight2flyphoto, on Flickr


407 by fight2flyphoto, on Flickr



103 by fight2flyphoto, on Flickr
And both aircraft do NOT have the little window in the floor. I had an opportunity to fly in Maid in the Shade this summer and most definitely noticed the floor window.

[Dan Johnson II]

If you want some B-25 identity confusion, here's one that took a bit to figure out. 8 gun strafer nose, rocket rails, top turret behind the bomb bay?

[Ken]

As seen on the YAM B-25D, the last D-models had the waist windows, although I'd defer to a B-25 expert as to whether or not the last G-models did as well. So, I'd say it was a D or G that had a J-model strafer kit added in the field. We've all seen the reports on how disenchanted the USAAF became with the 75mm cannon - so my guess would be a field-modified G model.

[Dan Johnson II]

As seen on the YAM B-25D, the last D-models had the waist windows, although I'd defer to a B-25 expert as to whether or not the last G-models did as well. So, I'd say it was a D or G that had a J-model strafer kit added in the field. We've all seen the reports on how disenchanted the USAAF became with the 75mm cannon - so my guess would be a field-modified G model.

Good guess. 41st BG had a number of their lower time B25Gs updated by removing the cannon nose and adding the strafer kit. At the same time they got rocket rails. Single enclosed tail gun along with the waist windows too.

A real hybrid B-25. Looks good though

[gary1954]

Ryan[/quote]


An edit on a Nose Art....What's up with that??? geezzzzze

[The Inspector]

The waist gun positions on that C/D are most likely 'Fairfax' windows. They looked like 'J' side windows but the Fairfax fairings were almost symetrical top and bottom and on the 'J' the lower one was shallower in depth . Came as a kit and. like the 8 gun nose could be installed in the field. You occasionally see a photo of a scrapped out B-25 (particularly in Africa or the Med) with HUGE cut outs in the aft fuselage sides so I would bet that Fairfax's would be a popular 'scavenge' item from a wreck, better field of fire and lots of cool air blowing in the cabin. The 6 and 8 gun noses were 'pretuned' in the gun butts before packaging and shipping and I think I read somewhere that 2 or 3 guys could install one in about 8 hours using hand tools.

Too bad we can't get the s/n to see what it was built as, a C/D/G/or H.

As a modeller, I've been aksing for some enterprising resin caster to put out Fairfax's in 1/72 and 1/48 for a long time!

[Dan Johnson II]

It's a G and the serial is most likely 42-64950. I'm about 90 percent sure on that one. Note the added wind deflectors for the waist windows with the glass removed.

[The Inspector]

That's a Fairfax window, see how symetrical the top and bottom blisters are? And the spoiler was part of the kit so you could swing the gun and to cut down on direct air 'booming' into the aft cabin and turning it into a big tin parachute.

[Ken]

The aft dorsal turret and early cheek gun pack rule out H-model.

By the way, are we looking at at least two different B-25's ... the photo of the boys helping push/pull on the #1 prop shows no gun pack, while the last photo does. In that photo, I also see the pilot's armor plate ... again hinting at G-model, since neither the C nor D had this and I'm not aware of a field program to add that particular piece.

Thanks for sharing those awesome pix Dan and for solving the serial question! (BTW, What was the source??)

[Dan Johnson II]

The modified Gs had the gun pack only on the right side. The serial number matchs the only on in the 41st history to end with 50 and it was a G.

[Dave Fish]

A rare photo of the only PBJ-1G (BuNo 35097) assigned to the US Marine Corps. Taken 5 Feb 1944 at Marine Corps Aviation Technical School, Quantico Marine Training Base, site of the Marine Bombing Squadrons Navigator-Bombardier 10-week ground school. I can positively identify two members of this class, one from VMB 611 and one from VMB 612. I am still trying to find out what “A.E.D.S.” means.

[Craig59]

Dave,

Great photo! Checked my dads log book and he flew it in February and March 1945 for a total of 8.1 hours. The ship was by then at MCAAF Kinston and his training sorties were out-and-backs and from Kinston to Cherry Point. Can you email me a high res image and perhaps I can add to the names in the photo? sonofthor@sbcglobal.net

A rare photo of the only PBJ-1G (BuNo 35097) assigned to the US Marine Corps. Taken 5 Feb 1944 at Marine Corps Aviation Technical School, Quantico Marine Training Base, site of the Marine Bombing Squadrons Navigator-Bombardier 10-week ground school. I can positively identify two members of this class, one from VMB 611 and one from VMB 612. I am still trying to find out what “A.E.D.S.” means.

[Dave Fish]

Craig,

Here is the back of the photo with names. I missed four other names from VMB 611. Will send you email with both the front and back of the photo.

Dave