Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:31 pm
Chicoartist wrote:zeamerb17 wrote: That's the "fastback" version for all you Mustang freaks.
Cool - there was a Shelby P-51???????
I'll be here all week, folks!
Wade
But of course!!! The original "fastback" Mustang was the Allison power version, the Shelby version is the one powered by the Merlin of course.
Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:35 pm
You guys ever notice when you compare the nose art on the -B vs the -D that the B model was "Shangri-La" and the D is "Shangrila"? Model makers better mind their decal sheets!
Ken
Ken
Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:37 pm
I just call them P-51B's!
What if it's a 'C', 'A' or a F-6 or my god.........
an A-36...................
Mon Jul 23, 2007 8:43 pm
Sure beats calling'em humpbacks 
Enjoy the Day! Mark
Enjoy the Day! Mark
Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:59 pm
We are painting our "C" model as Duane Beeson's mount.."Boise Bee". (I know, it's actually just "BEE") which looks very much like "Shangri-La".
???
Tue Jul 24, 2007 1:47 pm
J-C,
End this and say P-51C 'razorback'
BTW to save 50 people asking the same question,
where are the photos 
End this and say P-51C 'razorback'
BTW to save 50 people asking the same question,
where are the photos
Tue Jul 24, 2007 1:58 pm
I've always called them "razorbacks". I believe they were more commonly called "humpbacks" during the war though.
I'm not smart enough to post pictures.
I'll send you one and will you post it?
I'm not smart enough to post pictures.
I'll send you one and will you post it?
????
Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:03 pm
Send me has many has you want
Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:08 pm
I can't locate your e-mail address.
Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:23 pm
Getting back to the thread name at hand, I actually picked up one of the new SWEET P-51 "Razorback" kits. These little kits are amazing if you dont know. The come with the regular standard canopy, and it comes with the Malcom hood canopy as well as two different types of gas tanks.
Right now im on the last leg to finish up my own Shangri-la in 1/144th.
It would be nice to put up pics, but ive said that before..
Chris
Right now im on the last leg to finish up my own Shangri-la in 1/144th.
It would be nice to put up pics, but ive said that before..
Chris
Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:29 pm
That was a hint to e-mail me Jack
Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:33 pm
Dear Jack Cook
In re-reading the posts I see I was in error. Is there any chance you could cite specifics regarding exactly who used the term "razorback" towards early Mustangs during the war?
My impression, talking with the few Mustang drivers Ive had the priviiledge of speaking with did not recall it ever being used during WWII. A couple did say they first head it during the fifties.This co-incides with the earliest printed use I've been able to find. Querries to a former P-51B pilot over at Mustangsmustangs forum, about two years back was that he could not recall either way. I've been trying to put this bit of legend to bed for some time, now, and would appreciate any help.
Time is running out and we may never know.
TIA
charlie
In re-reading the posts I see I was in error. Is there any chance you could cite specifics regarding exactly who used the term "razorback" towards early Mustangs during the war?
My impression, talking with the few Mustang drivers Ive had the priviiledge of speaking with did not recall it ever being used during WWII. A couple did say they first head it during the fifties.This co-incides with the earliest printed use I've been able to find. Querries to a former P-51B pilot over at Mustangsmustangs forum, about two years back was that he could not recall either way. I've been trying to put this bit of legend to bed for some time, now, and would appreciate any help.
Time is running out and we may never know.
TIA
charlie
?????
Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:46 pm
That was a hint to e-mail me Jack
da-oh
Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:03 am
There's a new picture of the wreckage of Shangri-La, well new to me atleast. It's in the Flight Journal's Winter 2008 WWII Air Combat issue that I just picked up.
The picture is after the removal of the aircraft after the crash. The fuselage is completely separated in the area of the "Stars and Bars" and the empenage is sitting maybe 15 to 20 feet away from the main portion of the fuselage. The main section has it's gear extended is sitting up proper. It's great shot, tried to find it on the net but came up with bupkiss. I'll see about scanning it in tonight if no one comes up with it by then.
One thing worth mentioning about the picture is that I noticed is that all of the upper cowling sheetmetal with the Shangri-La nose art has been removed. I imagine to be preserved as a keepsake.
My question is where is it today? Someone's personal collection.
Shay
____________
Semper Fortis
The picture is after the removal of the aircraft after the crash. The fuselage is completely separated in the area of the "Stars and Bars" and the empenage is sitting maybe 15 to 20 feet away from the main portion of the fuselage. The main section has it's gear extended is sitting up proper. It's great shot, tried to find it on the net but came up with bupkiss. I'll see about scanning it in tonight if no one comes up with it by then.
One thing worth mentioning about the picture is that I noticed is that all of the upper cowling sheetmetal with the Shangri-La nose art has been removed. I imagine to be preserved as a keepsake.
My question is where is it today? Someone's personal collection.
Shay
____________
Semper Fortis
Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:03 am
That picture, and others in the series of shots showing S-L "on her gear" with the engine cowling removed, were taken near the 4th's "Heavy Maintenance" squadron's blister hangars just south of the base, across Elder Street. A couple of the blisters are still there in use as farm storage.
Gentile was given several instruments from the plane, which I have held in my hands, and it's highly doubtful that anything else "of note" has survived. Everything else that could be reused was recycled into other planes - EVERYTHING else. The rest was hauled off to be melted down. THERE WAS AND IS NO "POND" where the 4th dumped their "junk".
From my online article, "Don Gentile's 1944 Logbook" (full text on my site):
This forever ended Don's combat days - Blakeslee almost literally kicked him out of the 4th Fighter Group, and he never again saw combat. Don was banned from flying with the 4th until he left for the States - even practice flights. Col. Blakeslee had his unbreakable rule that anybody who bent a kite "flat hatting" was out of the group for good. I asked the Colonel about this at the October 2001 4th FG reunion, and he told me that after Gentile ". . . broke the rules", either he or Blakeslee would have to leave, and, as he told me while looking straight through me with those famous gray-blue eyes, “. . . it wasn't going to be me!" Don was reportedly planning to bring Shangri-La with him to the States as a publicity tool (wouldn't it be great to be able to go to the Smithsonian's National Air & Space Museum and see it today?). Col. Blakeslee has commented on the matter:
. . . I've been accused of ruining his chances to be the top ace because I kicked him out of the Group. Well, it was SOP that no one would buzz up the field or do victory rolls because of the possibility of battle damage. Gentile knew that but did it anyway. People say that I knew it was Gentile when it happened. That's not true. I was over by my plane when I saw this plane coming in low. He bounced and hit the ground directly in front of the photographers who were there to film the buzz just missing them and the Operations Hut, breaking the back of the plane. They say that I said 'Gentile will never fly for me again' right at that point. I had no idea who it was. What I actually said was 'that pilot will never fly for me again'. I only found out it was Gentile later.
It was time for Gentile to go home anyway. He had been flying combat missions practically nonstop for almost two years - his first combat mission, after RAF "Clobber College" training, was in June 1942 with the RAF's 133 (Eagle) Squadron. He had requested and received time-extensions to his combat tour three times already. The wreck was carted off to the blister hangars of the 4th's 45th Air Engineering "Heavy Maintenance" Squadron, located immediately south of the base and over approximately a three week period was slowly stripped of all usable parts.
The Heavy Maintenance hangars were where they did major repair work and refitting. Nobody remembers or knows for sure if there was anything tangible left of Shangri-La after the stripping. Rumors have circulated for years that the remains were bulldozed into a pond or ravine, but there is absolutely no evidence of this. In fact, at the 2001 4th Fighter Group reunion in Savannah, Georgia, I personally talked to several mechanics who worked in the 45th Air Engineering "Heavy Maintenance" Squadron about this very subject, and they remembered Shangri-La well - and how she was stripped of all usable parts, but none of them recall any kind of pond or ravine or anywhere where the 4th dumped their "junk" - and these men would be the ones to know! They don't recall throwing anything away. Their recollection is that their Sergeant in charge kept everything for possible use in aircraft repair work. Finally, I talked to Edward Tetlow, former owner of "the pond in question" (there is one on his property, which I saw myself - it's big enough for maybe ONE plane), and he left no doubt that, ". . . there's nothing here." I'm sure the rumors will continue, though!
Wade
Gentile was given several instruments from the plane, which I have held in my hands, and it's highly doubtful that anything else "of note" has survived. Everything else that could be reused was recycled into other planes - EVERYTHING else. The rest was hauled off to be melted down. THERE WAS AND IS NO "POND" where the 4th dumped their "junk".
From my online article, "Don Gentile's 1944 Logbook" (full text on my site):
This forever ended Don's combat days - Blakeslee almost literally kicked him out of the 4th Fighter Group, and he never again saw combat. Don was banned from flying with the 4th until he left for the States - even practice flights. Col. Blakeslee had his unbreakable rule that anybody who bent a kite "flat hatting" was out of the group for good. I asked the Colonel about this at the October 2001 4th FG reunion, and he told me that after Gentile ". . . broke the rules", either he or Blakeslee would have to leave, and, as he told me while looking straight through me with those famous gray-blue eyes, “. . . it wasn't going to be me!" Don was reportedly planning to bring Shangri-La with him to the States as a publicity tool (wouldn't it be great to be able to go to the Smithsonian's National Air & Space Museum and see it today?). Col. Blakeslee has commented on the matter:
. . . I've been accused of ruining his chances to be the top ace because I kicked him out of the Group. Well, it was SOP that no one would buzz up the field or do victory rolls because of the possibility of battle damage. Gentile knew that but did it anyway. People say that I knew it was Gentile when it happened. That's not true. I was over by my plane when I saw this plane coming in low. He bounced and hit the ground directly in front of the photographers who were there to film the buzz just missing them and the Operations Hut, breaking the back of the plane. They say that I said 'Gentile will never fly for me again' right at that point. I had no idea who it was. What I actually said was 'that pilot will never fly for me again'. I only found out it was Gentile later.
It was time for Gentile to go home anyway. He had been flying combat missions practically nonstop for almost two years - his first combat mission, after RAF "Clobber College" training, was in June 1942 with the RAF's 133 (Eagle) Squadron. He had requested and received time-extensions to his combat tour three times already. The wreck was carted off to the blister hangars of the 4th's 45th Air Engineering "Heavy Maintenance" Squadron, located immediately south of the base and over approximately a three week period was slowly stripped of all usable parts.
The Heavy Maintenance hangars were where they did major repair work and refitting. Nobody remembers or knows for sure if there was anything tangible left of Shangri-La after the stripping. Rumors have circulated for years that the remains were bulldozed into a pond or ravine, but there is absolutely no evidence of this. In fact, at the 2001 4th Fighter Group reunion in Savannah, Georgia, I personally talked to several mechanics who worked in the 45th Air Engineering "Heavy Maintenance" Squadron about this very subject, and they remembered Shangri-La well - and how she was stripped of all usable parts, but none of them recall any kind of pond or ravine or anywhere where the 4th dumped their "junk" - and these men would be the ones to know! They don't recall throwing anything away. Their recollection is that their Sergeant in charge kept everything for possible use in aircraft repair work. Finally, I talked to Edward Tetlow, former owner of "the pond in question" (there is one on his property, which I saw myself - it's big enough for maybe ONE plane), and he left no doubt that, ". . . there's nothing here." I'm sure the rumors will continue, though!
Wade