Warbird Information Exchange

And Gary comes through with info critical to the story again.

It appears that I, like a lot of folks, am guilty of that oft-used tag that a little bit of information is a dangerous thing.

Thanks Gary.

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"Anyway, the throat feels a bit rough...the legs have gone...but I'm still able to chant, so let's get going."

Joe Strummer, 1999

The way Greenamayer puts it in the documentary "B-29, Frozen In Time", it almost sounds like the APU was unintentionally left running...like it should have been shut off after engine start...
The book "Hunting Warbirds" has lots of good info about the Kee Bird recovery attempt...

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"Everyone wants to live here (New Jersey), evidenced by the fact that it has the highest population per capita in the U.S..."

There is a possibility that they had other plans...such as shutting the APU down after engine start. What I previously posted is just how we operated FIFI, which is pretty close to what the operation manuals suggest.

One other point, however, is that even if Kee Bird's APU had been shut down after engine start up, it would have still been quite hot when the gas can spilled on it. Would it have been hot enough to ignite the fuel? We'll never know. But the point was that it wasn't the APU that was the problem, it was the failure of the clothes hangar holding the gas can up.

My point to all of this is to clear up the part of the story that the demise of the Kee Bird was solely the APU's fault, when indeed it wasn't.

Thanks,
Gary

I agree with you Gary, it wasn't the APU's fault, but it was the operation of it, and it's systems that they kind of patched up. I was under the impression that they were going to shut the APU down after engine start and forgot. The gear was not going to be retracted for the flight. Now after engine start they made a few taxi tests as well. Would the APU still have been that hot? I don't know.

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Chris Henry
EAA Aviation Museum Manager

Like I mentioned earlier, the APU is required to stay on (typically) for taxiing, since (again, typically) the engine rpm's are low enough to not have the generators on line to assist the battery in keeping the electric hydraulic pump for the brakes going. It's amazing the amount of heat that little two cylinder engine makes, but in that frigid environment, I'm sure it would've cooled down pretty quickly.

Frankly, I'm rather surprised that they were able to even get the APU started.

Gary

That is what I am referring to...They got in a hurry and did something stupid. Bungie cords, a coat hanger, and a gas can hanging over a running engine is not smart or safe....should have done something different...or had a guy standing over it...something...anything (20/02 hindsight)

That story was in a magazine shortly after the incident.

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Zane Adams
There I was at 20,000 ft, upside down and out of ammunition.
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Man, I didn't really want to start getting too involved with this whole Kee Bird thing, because I know there are some strong opinions about what the outcome of the airplane was.

However, I can tell you that they DID have an APU operator in the back of the airplane (I didn't think so at first either, but the crew members that were on board that I spoke with told me otherwise). It's just that when the gas can spilled all over the APU, there was pretty much nothing he could do about it. The fire was just too intense.

Gary

From what I remember, the magazine article also said that all the years of dust and dirt were shaken up on that run, causing the guy in the back to have poor visibility. He was barely able to make out the flames, and once they hit the old insulation, it was over.

I think the article was in a Warbirds International. The cover had Kee Bird on fire, and then in a smaller photo, the TFC P-38 crashing. It wasn't my favorite issue thats for sure.

There is no question that mistakes were made but as the Apollo 1 tragedy exhibited you can have all he best and brightest people in the world working on something, and throw all the money in the world at something and still mistakes will be made. What happened to KeeBird was sickening truly but I think when people simplify the issue and say it was Greeameyer's ego or stupidity or irresponsibility that CAUSED this to happen or they should have just moved it by airlift (geese that would have been easy) are irresponsible in their statements.

Regardless of how events unfolded the reality is that we are here today with Keebird in the condition that she is.

What can we do to make the situation better? Well for starts I think there is too much B-29 still up there. Atleast 50% I would estimated. Still a lot of it useful. Now i'm no expert on how much SuperFortress material is still laying around but I can imagine it's not much. Hell the B-50 Lady Luck could use a set of wings. My point is that KeeBird's remains could be incorporated into restoration either for flight of static perhaps even using the B-29 "Lady of the Lake" as an additional parts source.



I think the Urbana folks have set a good example for resourcefulness in using the reamining bits and pieces of B-17s to create a whole example.

This might prove to be the only avenue left to add another B-29 to the ranks. As I'm afraid the last lost holy grail of a B-29 (Lake Mead) will remain forever that, Lost due to pig headedness.



Shay
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Semper Fortis

Gary: If you were allowed access to the Kee Bird site, what of the B-29 remains would you say are the most valuable to recover?

Does anyone have a picture of the Kee Bird in it's current state?

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"Everyone wants to live here (New Jersey), evidenced by the fact that it has the highest population per capita in the U.S..."

Wings first, then the tail section, then anything else that was left (cowlings, landing gear parts, etc., etc.) If allowed access, dang near anything I could haul out of there.

Gary

I'm sure a Herc could get in there at night and...

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"Everyone wants to live here (New Jersey), evidenced by the fact that it has the highest population per capita in the U.S..."

After working on C-130s for several years. If it had been me that's the route I would have gone. And maybe Heavy Lift the wing center section to thule.

Shoot back around when Keebird was lost the C-17s were just coming on line. They would have made short work of transporting the B-29 I'm sure.

Shay
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Semper Fortis