B-17 Liberty Belle fire & landing in Oswego,Ill, EVERYONE OK

Bomberboy · **Joined:** Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:36 pm **Posts:** 64

B 25 C wrote:

The key word was IF

I'm afraid I beg to differ with you on the use of the word 'if' in the context of what you wrote.
There is absolutely no "if" about it as LB in itself cannot be rebuilt.
There is not enough of her left to be rebuilt.

Bomberboy

lmritger · **Posted:** Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:23 am

Bomberboy wrote:

B 25 C wrote:

The key word was IF

I'm afraid I beg to differ with you on the use of the word 'if' in the context of what you wrote.
There is absolutely no "if" about it as LB in itself cannot be rebuilt.
There is not enough of her left to be rebuilt.

Bomberboy

Much as it pains me to do so, I have to agree... you can build an awful lot from scratch but I think the spar and center section are the real key items here and those are completely gone on Liberty Belle, sadly.

I'm positive drawings exist, but have no earthly idea what it would take to create these sections for such a large bird.

There are certainly parts which can be reused, but my completely non-expert observation is that most, if not all of the major structural components are unusable. :-(

Lynn

Shay · **Posted:** Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:04 am

I was told this past Saturday that upon completion Champaign lady will only be 7 to 10% original. With alot of the original material they do have serving as donor parts or templates. They have done tremendous job creating straight from factory drawings. Of course there are certain things that are either too costly or complex to be recreated (at the moment) and in those cases you source your parts from originals. This is the very reason for the groups trip next month to Alaska to recover parts from a wrecksite.

My point is if the resource backing is there we can create or recreate anything. It's time and money. I don't know why the spar issue keeps coming up as a dead end in a restoration. They were built once, they can be built again. There are very talented craftsmen in the Warbird arena. I have no doubt the expertise exist. It's just matter of cost. If that is the last hurdle for a owner to get his warbird back in the air. I'm sure something will happen. If your ONLY option is to build a brand new spar then i guess that's what you'll have to do or start looking for a museum to take your Warbird in from the cold.

100 years from now how much of the warbirds flying will be original? And will anyone even care when you look up at the rumbling 4 radial engined Boeing designed aircraft bristling with .50 cals? Will it be any less of a Flying Fortess at that point?

Shay
____________
Semper Fortis

Robbie Roberts · **Posted:** Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:33 am

Bomberboy wrote:

Nathan wrote:

B 25 C wrote:

If she could be rebuilt to flying I would be first in line to fly her as a paying passenger!

Another alternative of course is to use as many other original B-17 parts from other aeroplanes that may not currently constitute a complete aeroplane in themselves, but that as a 'bits of parts' collective could.
During the war, it is well known that many an aircraft were re-built, re-constructed and repaired in the field, with large sections from different aircraft quite sucessfully.
The only issue there would be the actual aircraft's identity, particularly if the major parts are from many different airframes.
this is not such a problem if there is say only a single donor genuine airfame involved.

I await others views with interest.

Bomberboy

They could call her "Swoose Belle"!
Scott

DryMartini · **Posted:** Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:12 pm

Shay wrote:

My point is if the resource backing is there we can create or recreate anything. It's time and money. I don't know why the spar issue keeps coming up as a dead end in a restoration. They were built once, they can be built again. There are very talented craftsmen in the Warbird arena. I have no doubt the expertise exist. It's just matter of cost. If that is the last hurdle for a owner to get his warbird back in the air.

See:
http://aerovintage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=768
for more information as to why the spar keeps coming up.

marine air · **Posted:** Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:05 pm

It seems that a Billionaire would not spend anotherr 15 million dollars reproducing essentially a replica of Liberty Bell from scratch. Those remaining parts look like they are deformed by the extreme heat. Doesnt a flyable B-17 change hands every 3 years or so? Much cheaper to buy a flyer from someone's collection for say $3. mill. Second, there are several airframes around. Kermit weeks has one, lots of Air force bases around with them sitting on outside display, and lots of components around from wrecks. Wasn't "Liberty Bell" built up from two B-17 carcasses and lots of spare parts and new build parts? He might not endeavour to do that again.
If he had it fully insured, he might take his insurance check for $5 million or whatever and sit on it. If he had it self insured or liability only, then he doesnt have an insurance check to start another project. His Home Depot stock isn't as robust as it was a few years ago. He may or may not be inclined to tackle another project at his age.
My vote is to see the owner use his insurance check to buy another near flyer, and get it back on the airshow circuit. Keep a good thing going!

richkolasa · **Posted:** Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:20 pm

It would be nice if someone with $ could pry "Miss Angela" away from it's hangar, but I doubt that will happen. I have it on good authority that a B-17 may be on tour shortly with the "Liberty Foundation".

Rich

wingman1 · **Posted:** Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:34 pm

richkolasa wrote:

It would be nice if someone with $ could pry "Miss Angela" away from it's hangar, but I doubt that will happen. I have it on good authority that a B-17 may be on tour shortly with the "Liberty Foundation".

Rich

i thught that Miss Angela was being worked on to return her to the air?

RobC · **Posted:** Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:35 pm

Didn't the owner recover a B-17 out of a Canadian lake a couple of years ago?

richkolasa · **Posted:** Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:37 pm

wingman1 wrote:

richkolasa wrote:

It would be nice if someone with $ could pry "Miss Angela" away from it's hangar, but I doubt that will happen. I have it on good authority that a B-17 may be on tour shortly with the "Liberty Foundation".

Rich

i thught that Miss Angela was being worked on to return her to the air?

I hope so, but I wasn't sure since Bob Pond passed away, I haven't heard much about her. She needs to be "out and about". Can't wait for "Piccadilly Lilly" to fly again too!

Rich

wingman1 · **Posted:** Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:39 pm

RobC wrote:

Didn't the owner recover a B-17 out of a Canadian lake a couple of years ago?

i have heard that before as well, but nothing has been on the website about it so who knows? :drinkers:

richkolasa · **Posted:** Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:40 pm

RobC wrote:

Didn't the owner recover a B-17 out of a Canadian lake a couple of years ago?

Last I heard (about 36 hours ago), that was about a decade away from flying, though Don Brooks has already purchased the Liberty Belle wreckage from the insurance company, so maybe that will speed things up.

Can't believe she's gone. Heck, I photographed Rush Limbaugh in her.

Rich

wingman1 · **Posted:** Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:47 pm

richkolasa wrote:

RobC wrote:

Didn't the owner recover a B-17 out of a Canadian lake a couple of years ago?

Last I heard (about 36 hours ago), that was about a decade away from flying, though Don Brooks has already purchased the Liberty Belle wreckage from the insurance company, so maybe that will speed things up.

Can't believe she's gone. Heck, I photographed Rush Limbaugh in her.

Rich

now that is a pic i would love to see. :supz:

(any chance of?)

richkolasa · **Posted:** Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:55 pm

wingman1 · **Posted:** Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:06 pm

wow thanks. the pic's were awsome. :supz:

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B-17 Liberty Belle fire & landing in Oswego,Ill, EVERYONE OK

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