Skyraiders ...

Snake45 · **Joined:** Sat Apr 05, 2014 5:49 pm **Posts:** 864

There's one tiny little unusual thing going on in this picture:

Whereas there's all kinds of interesting things going on in this one. Discuss:

SpadGuy · **Joined:** Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:40 pm **Posts:** 19

Ken wrote:

They don't all have to be USAF ... :wink:

I love the picture led by A-1H 139738. I have many hours in this bird. And oh, by the way, it may be the only aircraft that was flown in both a Medal of Honor mission (Lt Col Bill Jones III on 1 Sep 1968) AND an Air Force Cross mission (Capt Ron Smith on 2 June 1972), in that order. It was about to be one of the survivors of USAF service when, on 28 September 1972, it became the last Skyraider to be lost in the Vietnam War.

SpadGuy · **Joined:** Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:40 pm **Posts:** 19

tom d. friedman wrote:

i'm not drunk or crazy,......... they both fly w/ about the same ordinance less the a-10's 30 mm cannon, & at near the same top speed. boy would that be a hoot!!

Well that is just not the case. First, the A-10's delivery airspeeds are almost twice as fast as the Skyraider's, About 180 KIAS versus 300-350 for the Warthog. IF you are doing true close air support with bad guys well inside of 500 meters of the friendlies, then you need to be able to assess friendly locations without any doubt, and be able to put ordnance close to the friendlies. So slower is better.

And that brings me to a more important point. The ONLY ordnance that the A-10 has that can be employed within 500 meters of friendlies is the 30mm GAU-8 gun. EVERYTHING we carried on the A-1 could be, and WAS routinely used well inside of that distance. I have personally delivered ordnance within 100 meters on many occasions. For the A-10, this would be extremely difficult due both to its delivery airspeed but more importantly its ordnance.

If someone could give me some pointers on how to post images, I will show you what I mean.

Mark Allen M · **Joined:** Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:48 pm **Posts:** 7800

SpadGuy wrote:

If someone could give me some pointers on how to post images, I will show you what I mean.

Pretty spectacular thread you three have created. Hours of stuff to read and learn. If someone doesn't beat me to it, I'd be happy to walk you through the photo posting process.

Mark

Snake45 · **Joined:** Sat Apr 05, 2014 5:49 pm **Posts:** 864

Snake45 wrote:

SpadGuy wrote:

OK, sorry, I do have that book, in fact two copies of it, go figure! Not a great picture. But here is what I see. Looks like the right seat is empty, but cannot be certain. I agree it looks like 35 as the first two digits of the serial. I would bet it is 135141. But it could be either marked with TS or TC. At that point in time, all NKP Skyraider squadrons were flying night, SAR and CAS missions, day and night. The night duty rotated between squadrons.

135141 is an awfully tempting conclusion, and I'm trying to see that last number as a 1 and having a real hard time of it.

I have several other pics of 141 and in all of them, it has the standard Collins 37R-2. This one has that oddball dual-band antenna that I've seen on a very few Es. Not that the antenna couldn't have been swapped out at some point, as we saw above, where the pic here has the dual-band but I have other pics of the same airplane with the Collins.

Okay, I just found a pic of 141 where it's wearing the oddball dual-band antenna. (Mutza, page 28.)

However....

In that pic, it's also got the tail beacon mounted on the pitot. The Mystery Skyraider in the Dorr book doesn't have that.

141's also got 36622 undersurfaces in that pic, not black.

SpadGuy · **Joined:** Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:40 pm **Posts:** 19

Snake45 wrote:

[quote=

However....

In that pic, it's also got the tail beacon mounted on the pitot. The Mystery Skyraider in the Dorr book doesn't have that.

It's also got 36622 undersurfaces in that pic, not black.

Sorry Snake45 I don't "speak" paint codes, but I did fly them! So it is a white (light gray) belly?

Snake45 · **Joined:** Sat Apr 05, 2014 5:49 pm **Posts:** 864

Yeah, 36622 is that very light off-white gray. It's the default underside color on SEA camo Skyraiders (and everything else), but I know that many had black undersides and some even had 36118 Gunship Gray unders.

SpadGuy · **Joined:** Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:40 pm **Posts:** 19

Snake45 wrote:

Yeah, 36622 is that very light off-white gray. It's the default underside color on SEA camo Skyraiders (and everything else), but I know that many had black undersides and some even had 36118 Gunship Gray unders.

Snake, let me check with Bob Dorr to see if we can get to the bottom of this.

Mark Allen M · **Joined:** Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:48 pm **Posts:** 7800

You kids lost me pages ago :rolleyes:

Reminds me of my college statistics classes, I hope someone's taking good notes because the exam is going to be a real b*tch. Lol

Seriously, good stuff fellas. Señor Spad let me know if I can help you post your photos. I bet you have quite a collection and more than just a few stories to share.

M

Snake45 · **Joined:** Sat Apr 05, 2014 5:49 pm **Posts:** 864

Last night I got the USAF and VNAF fat-faces in Mikesh's Flying Dragons book logged into my database, and got started on the Mutza book. When that one's logged, I'm gonna go through my data and start making some lists of "special" airplanes and then see what I can find out about those.

Snake45 · **Joined:** Sat Apr 05, 2014 5:49 pm **Posts:** 864

Snake45 wrote:

There's one tiny little unusual thing going on in this picture:

I have this same picture in two books, and in neither does it have the VNAF fin flash. Someone has apparently 'shopped it in (and a good job, too). It would have been the only USAF A-1E of the '64-'65 era I've ever seen with the fin flash.

Ken · **Posted:** Thu May 08, 2014 11:12 am

Snake45 wrote:

Yeah, 36622 is that very light off-white gray. It's the default underside color on SEA camo Skyraiders (and everything else), but I know that many had black undersides and some even had 36118 Gunship Gray unders.

I brought up the Gunship Grey question in this thread: viewtopic.php?p=460478

Ken · **Posted:** Thu May 08, 2014 11:28 am

SpadGuy wrote:

I love the picture led by A-1H 139738. I have many hours in this bird. And oh, by the way, it may be the only aircraft that was flown in both a Medal of Honor mission (Lt Col Bill Jones III on 1 Sep 1968) AND an Air Force Cross mission (Capt Ron Smith on 2 June 1972), in that order. It was about to be one of the survivors of USAF service when, on 28 September 1972, it became the last Skyraider to be lost in the Vietnam War.

To further tangle the Skyraider "thread" spaghetti, a nice photo of 139738 appears on page 4 of this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=22506

Ken · **Posted:** Fri May 09, 2014 3:22 pm

Snake45 wrote:

Speaking of light-colored cowling panels, here's a real interesting one. Not just front and rear in light, but the whole thing. and the cowl ring appears to be in overall 1/36473 or 36373, while the center panel and flaps seem to be in USN Gull Gray/White (36440).

Snake, it may be a problem with the VNAF site, but the three images you posted aren't visible. And I wanted a chance at a pony! Ken

Snake45 · **Joined:** Sat Apr 05, 2014 5:49 pm **Posts:** 864

Yeah, the VNAF site has been up and down all week. Last time it was up, I furiously right-clicked all the interesting images I wanted for the moment.

In other news, I FINALLY got all the Mutza book logged in my photo-database except the "Skyraider Warriors" section, which I don't think is going to give me too many usable SN IDs. I've logged 31 books and magazines, 233 photos of 90 different identifiable aircraft. I'll send you the updated list. :wink:

ETA: Just now logged that section. As I suspected, only found two identifiable Fatfaces. There's a great pic of one of the VNAF-spec airplanes in USAF markings (top of page 171), but sadly, no number is visible in the pic. (All that can be seen is ET on the fin, and, of course, the VNAF-type VHF antenna.)

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