Fri May 04, 2007 6:40 pm
MUSTANGDRIVER !! Step away from the Koolaid !! 
Stupid stuff didn't start with present NMUSAF management. Some of the previous folks were just as bad.
Ask Kudzu, he was there. Kudzu works with the Charlotte guys and he was involved with bringing the Florence aircraft they saved back to their museum.
Stupid stuff didn't start with present NMUSAF management. Some of the previous folks were just as bad.
Ask Kudzu, he was there. Kudzu works with the Charlotte guys and he was involved with bringing the Florence aircraft they saved back to their museum.
Fri May 04, 2007 6:44 pm
Ha Ha Nice one I hate to think that happened, but I guess it is possible. Man what a shame.
I hate to think that happened, but I guess it is possible. Man what a shame.
Fri May 04, 2007 6:53 pm
It's a good thing that B-29 was saved, but....cosmetically it has been restored but internally it's a train wreck. A valiant effort was made to save it, but it really needs help for it's long term preservation...
Fri May 04, 2007 10:33 pm
I believe that the RB-66 is now at Shaw AFB in Sumter, SC.
By the way, the registry is incorrect in stating that the B-29 Sweet Eloise is at NAS Atlanta. It's actually at Dobbins Air Reserve Base in Marietta, GA.
Walt
By the way, the registry is incorrect in stating that the B-29 Sweet Eloise is at NAS Atlanta. It's actually at Dobbins Air Reserve Base in Marietta, GA.
Walt
Travis AFB museum
Sun May 06, 2007 5:54 pm
is it possible that the pieces of that A-26K went to the Travis Museum? They have, what they say is an A-26B that was converted to A-26k standard at the museum.
Sun May 06, 2007 11:37 pm
Hi,
I unfortunately never found the time to go down and see the collection in Florence before the plug was pulled (and still kick myself about it). I first saw the remains of the A-26K when it was sitting on it's belly minus nose, engines, doors, landing gear, cockpit contents and top as pictured on the coastal web site. The story as I understand it was that the USAFM decided to part it out for some other restoration/s and scrap the rest (maybe to make their Vietnam A26K more unique ? sorry Mustang, but I HAVE to throw that rock). I also heard at the time that other museums were begging to get this plane but got turned down because a general somewhere wanted parts for his pet project (maybe Travis ?, If so why not take the whole plane and get a "real" deal A-26K combat vet?). At some point the wings were cut off outboard of the nacelles as well as the tail. I can't remember if the tail was taken by the USAFM or was sold with the rest of the plane as scrap. I crawled all over and through what was left ( it still had the belly and tip tanks!) checking it out, it was still "juicy" with layered on paint (thus protecting the skin). Even taking into consideration my inexperience at the time and my CRS memory since then, I think the plane could have been safely FLOWN out given a couple months work (engines & props the big ?). Of course given the relative ease in which a invader comes apart for trucking that would not have been done but point made. There was some superfical corrosion to be sure but nothing on the scale of the "Rude Invader" I helped move to our museum from Tom's in Florida recently (sorry but it will never fly again unless Bill Gates pays for it !!). The scrap guy sold a few parts to Hawkins & Powers and the rest to someone in FL or maybe AL. I still get mad when I think about it getting destroyed!
The RB-66 was also scrapped, with the USAFM crews cutting off the cockpit and taking the engines, doors and landing gear (destination unknown). The hulk was then cut up by the same scrap guy who did the A-26K (no actual further cutting), C-97, NC-121K remains (I saved the front 50') and other miscellaneous stuff. I found out much later the guys at the Museum of Aviation in WR tried to get belly parts to fix their B-66 but were told no (and the parts they needed were destroyed NOT saved by the AF crew that cut off the forward part of the cockpit. Mustang, it's stuff like this that "leaves a mark" about the "management team" at the USAFM-NMUSAF. I have visited Dayton and love the place, the planes, and the people I met, I just hate the politics and personal agendas that sometimes override what is best for the artifacts and their history. I'll step off the soapbox now and add that no one is perfect and we all make mistakes (I should have tried to get ALL of the NC-121 hulk for example!
).
PS Glad that the CAF guys made it out of the S-2 at Cherry Point. At the end of the day, flesh is more important that sheet metal!
Brian
I unfortunately never found the time to go down and see the collection in Florence before the plug was pulled (and still kick myself about it). I first saw the remains of the A-26K when it was sitting on it's belly minus nose, engines, doors, landing gear, cockpit contents and top as pictured on the coastal web site. The story as I understand it was that the USAFM decided to part it out for some other restoration/s and scrap the rest (maybe to make their Vietnam A26K more unique ? sorry Mustang, but I HAVE to throw that rock). I also heard at the time that other museums were begging to get this plane but got turned down because a general somewhere wanted parts for his pet project (maybe Travis ?, If so why not take the whole plane and get a "real" deal A-26K combat vet?). At some point the wings were cut off outboard of the nacelles as well as the tail. I can't remember if the tail was taken by the USAFM or was sold with the rest of the plane as scrap. I crawled all over and through what was left ( it still had the belly and tip tanks!) checking it out, it was still "juicy" with layered on paint (thus protecting the skin). Even taking into consideration my inexperience at the time and my CRS memory since then, I think the plane could have been safely FLOWN out given a couple months work (engines & props the big ?). Of course given the relative ease in which a invader comes apart for trucking that would not have been done but point made. There was some superfical corrosion to be sure but nothing on the scale of the "Rude Invader" I helped move to our museum from Tom's in Florida recently (sorry but it will never fly again unless Bill Gates pays for it !!). The scrap guy sold a few parts to Hawkins & Powers and the rest to someone in FL or maybe AL. I still get mad when I think about it getting destroyed!
The RB-66 was also scrapped, with the USAFM crews cutting off the cockpit and taking the engines, doors and landing gear (destination unknown). The hulk was then cut up by the same scrap guy who did the A-26K (no actual further cutting), C-97, NC-121K remains (I saved the front 50') and other miscellaneous stuff. I found out much later the guys at the Museum of Aviation in WR tried to get belly parts to fix their B-66 but were told no (and the parts they needed were destroyed NOT saved by the AF crew that cut off the forward part of the cockpit. Mustang, it's stuff like this that "leaves a mark" about the "management team" at the USAFM-NMUSAF. I have visited Dayton and love the place, the planes, and the people I met, I just hate the politics and personal agendas that sometimes override what is best for the artifacts and their history. I'll step off the soapbox now and add that no one is perfect and we all make mistakes (I should have tried to get ALL of the NC-121 hulk for example!
).
PS Glad that the CAF guys made it out of the S-2 at Cherry Point. At the end of the day, flesh is more important that sheet metal!
Brian
Mon Dec 24, 2007 2:17 pm
Brian, just found your reply to these earlier posts, I would just like to say , WELL STATED ! The engines and cowlings of the K model have now been reunited with the oil tanks. 
Tue Dec 25, 2007 9:44 am
Before Rick has too much fun, I do need to say that the NMUSAF doesn't always have control over the aircraft displayed at the bases. Sometimes even though they belong in our inventory, the USAF gets certain things done without the museums approval. Also, while I am not a fan of certain politics which exist in any group of more than three people, the people at the NMUSAF are great. To say that they cut up the A-26 so that the one they have would be more unique is not correct either. There are always people that say "Hey we wanted that" after something is gone, but while it is there no one that is capable of doing anything with it say a word. If anyone would have wanted that A-26 that could have taken care of it, I feel pretty safe in saying that the museum would have gotten it to them.
Rick, I know you will be forever sore about the F-105, but the aircraft Is preserved in a great home. I have seen organizations that fly their aircraft do things just as bad, if not worse than the NMUSAF.
Rick, I know you will be forever sore about the F-105, but the aircraft Is preserved in a great home. I have seen organizations that fly their aircraft do things just as bad, if not worse than the NMUSAF.
Tue Dec 25, 2007 10:11 am
Mustang driver , before you distort the facts and reopen a can of worms on Christmas morning let me inform you that the Florence S.C. museum awas NOT on a military base. It was a privately funded nonprofit museum totally dependent on the NMUSAF and NMNA for the loan of their aircraft.
Your favotrite General told the crowd at the National Warbird Operators Conference hosted at NMUSAF last Feb. that HE OWNED over 3000 aircraft and that they would put them where they saw fit ! I guess that includes the scrapyard.
For the record, the F-105 debacle is NOT the only reason that I have heartburn over their actions. There are many other examples of abuse of power. For instance, I have it on good authority that an email went out last week from the museum to the caretakers of F-105s that directed those museums to inspect their respective aircraft for an installed engine. If said engine was found they were instructed to torch a hole in the compressor case rendering the engine useless !
Somebody is pushing an agenda.
Your favotrite General told the crowd at the National Warbird Operators Conference hosted at NMUSAF last Feb. that HE OWNED over 3000 aircraft and that they would put them where they saw fit ! I guess that includes the scrapyard.
For the record, the F-105 debacle is NOT the only reason that I have heartburn over their actions. There are many other examples of abuse of power. For instance, I have it on good authority that an email went out last week from the museum to the caretakers of F-105s that directed those museums to inspect their respective aircraft for an installed engine. If said engine was found they were instructed to torch a hole in the compressor case rendering the engine useless !
Somebody is pushing an agenda.
Tue Dec 25, 2007 10:22 am
Rick, they do the same thing to tanks when they give them to museums for display. When we were working on getting one for the museum in beaver, they were going to weld the hatch shut on it. Like I said, you can have the aircraft, but as long as the museum owns it, you can't fly it. Where is the big mystery? Do I agree with it in all instances? No. But that is how it is. They are not against anyone. Many museums are made up of only aircraft on loan from national museums.
At any rate, Merry Christmas
At any rate, Merry Christmas
Tue Dec 25, 2007 12:32 pm
I view the cutting of holes in priceless artifacts as wanton destruction be it tanks, aircraft or George Washington's sword.. The fact that this destruction is being done at the direction of the very entity entrusted with the care of these artifacts borders on criminal action.
The policy right now, may not be the policy in the future. But, by destroying these artifacts today insures that there can be no change in the policy in the future. What if the Air Force decided that they wanted to resurrect a 105, 106, 102, 101 for a Century Series Heritage Flight, due to the destruction/vandalization of static examples across the country it would be impossible. ( Just an example, I don't actually believe it could ever happen ) The only Century series capable of flying would be an F100, and that would happen ONLY because some unworthy civilian had the forethought and the willingness to save a flying example ! If left up to current NMUSAF policy NONE of our priceless flying Warbirds would fly. You have heard the standard answer as well as we all have " We do not support any flying of former USAF aircraft " .
The policy right now, may not be the policy in the future. But, by destroying these artifacts today insures that there can be no change in the policy in the future. What if the Air Force decided that they wanted to resurrect a 105, 106, 102, 101 for a Century Series Heritage Flight, due to the destruction/vandalization of static examples across the country it would be impossible. ( Just an example, I don't actually believe it could ever happen ) The only Century series capable of flying would be an F100, and that would happen ONLY because some unworthy civilian had the forethought and the willingness to save a flying example ! If left up to current NMUSAF policy NONE of our priceless flying Warbirds would fly. You have heard the standard answer as well as we all have " We do not support any flying of former USAF aircraft " .
Tue Dec 25, 2007 12:58 pm
Rick,
If it means anything to you, it's not just the US. You should try living in Belgium. At least you have some of them flying!
If it means anything to you, it's not just the US. You should try living in Belgium. At least you have some of them flying!
Tue Dec 25, 2007 1:38 pm
RareBear wrote:I believe that the RB-66 is now at Shaw AFB in Sumter, SC.
By the way, the registry is incorrect in stating that the B-29 Sweet Eloise is at NAS Atlanta. It's actually at Dobbins Air Reserve Base in Marietta, GA.
Walt
Dobbins and NAS Atlanta share the same runway (as does the Marietta Lockmart facility where C-130's and F-22's are built).
Tue Dec 25, 2007 2:22 pm
RickH wrote:I view the cutting of holes in priceless artifacts as wanton destruction be it tanks, aircraft or George Washington's sword.. The fact that this destruction is being done at the direction of the very entity entrusted with the care of these artifacts borders on criminal action.
The policy right now, may not be the policy in the future. But, by destroying these artifacts today insures that there can be no change in the policy in the future. What if the Air Force decided that they wanted to resurrect a 105, 106, 102, 101 for a Century Series Heritage Flight, due to the destruction/vandalization of static examples across the country it would be impossible. ( Just an example, I don't actually believe it could ever happen ) The only Century series capable of flying would be an F100, and that would happen ONLY because some unworthy civilian had the forethought and the willingness to save a flying example ! If left up to current NMUSAF policy NONE of our priceless flying Warbirds would fly. You have heard the standard answer as well as we all have " We do not support any flying of former USAF aircraft " .
Dude, you are way off on the whole not supporting flying. If that was the case, then why do they have the Air Tattoo? Why do they host the L-bird fly in? Why do they host the WWI fly in? They do not support the flying of THEIR aircraft. They cut holes in some of the aircraft parts so that people who are told not to fly something they don't own. Which has happened.