Desirable Aircraft for National Museums

[Steve Nelson]

I think I remember an old magazine article about that..seems that Tom Reilly was part of the effort to recover and restore the plane, but the deal fell apart of Canadian heritage laws, which are intended to keep historically significant Canadian artifacts from being taken out of the country.

SN

[old iron]

Ken wrote:

I would think that, money for shipment permitting, the Barksdale B-24 could be theirs.

I heard that the NASM examined and made a request for the Barksdale B-24, and the Air Force would not transfer it to them. Anybody have information on that?

[StangStung]

With all this talk on the former USMC Hellcat now going to the Collings Foundation, it got me wondering...

What are some other aircraft that the large musuems are seeking?

NNAM
NMUSAF
NASM
etc...

To get this thread more or less back on track, I think in sum we have as follows:

NASM - needs a B-24, but I haven't heard anything else really besides "they need to get what they already have on display" - which is probably a task that will not be complete in my, nor my kids, nor my (future potential) grandkids lives given the enormity of the collection.

NMUSAF - someone said it well earlier. There's very little of note that they don't already have. In fact, no one has mentioned anything in this thread yet.

NMNA - They have a pretty fair representative collection as well. Of course, the one glaring omission that one has pointed out yet - Devastator.

I'm scratching my head on the rest.

We also haven't heard from our friends across either pond. I'd be curious what other non-US national collections (say, UK or Aussie) think they're missing.

[Warbird Kid]

I'd be curious what other non-US national collections (say, UK or Aussie) think they're missing.

Yes, I'm curious about this as well. Cant forget that theres ALOT of other big museums internationally.

[SaxMan]

The Liberator is RCAF Liberator 586/A. My understanding is parts are with the North Atlantic Aviation Museum and much of the aircraft is still in situ.

Jim

Thank you!

[sandiego89]

NNMA, I can't recal an EA-6B Prowler, C2 Greyhound, F-5 Agressor or E-2 Hawkeye yet? Perhaps when they retire. Can't think of anything else major. Agree the Mariner should stay at Pima until there is inside space at NNMA.

A few "minors" may be worth consideration for P'cola:
-Sea Dart- the first protoype has sat at Garber for years in rough shape. Three others outdoors. Two never flew. One at NNMA would be nice.
-Pogo- Only one. As the first non rotary wing VTOL a/c to go vertical/horizontal/vertical in one flight perhaps smithsonian is best. Supposedly to go to UH at Duklles, but have not seen it yet. Get this on display!
-Curtis Wright XF15C at Quonset Pt Museum.

[AirJimL2]

NMUSAF - someone said it well earlier. There's very little of note that they don't already have. In fact, no one has mentioned anything in this thread yet.

An early P-40 in the markings of a certain Sabre test pilot? That is about all I can think of, though probably picky as it is a sub-varient.

There really isn't such a thing as a Canadian "national" collection. The Museum at Rockcliffe sees itself more as a technology museum, so they have what I would consider historical gaps, that they do not consider an issue. I would love to see them get a Meteor, but I think that is unlikely. I do think one glaring hole in their collection is that lack of a piston powered Firebomber...say Tracker, TBM, or A-26. These aircraft had a long history in Canada and certainly fit within the technology mandate. In fact outside of the early flying boats, I'm not sure the Museum has any aircraft involved in firefighting. (In my opinion one of the FPL TBMs or Air Spray A-26s would look great in the museum in their post war civilian markings to tell the story of the development and history of forest protection in Canada.) The RCAF Museum in Trenton is handicapped by getting started late and is missing so many key aircraft...Mustang, Kittyhawk ,Lancaster, Hurricane, Spitfire, Battle, Oxford, North Star, etc. that it will be difficult to fill them.

Jim

[AirJimL2]

Heck, it was a total failure, but an Avro Aerocar would be nice at Rockcliffe from both a historical and (failed) technological standpoint.

Jim

[mrhenniger]

There really isn't such a thing as a Canadian "national" collection. The Museum at Rockcliffe sees itself more as a technology museum, so they have what I would consider historical gaps, that they do not consider an issue.

A life time ago when I took volunteer training at the "National Aviation Museum" (named as changed a few times since then, at Rockcliffe/Ottawa, I was specifically instructed to tell people the aircraft were part of the "National Aeronautical Collection" displayed by the "National Aviation Museum". It would seem they do have a national mandate.

Interesting note... a few years ago the museum in Trenton renamed themselves the "Air Force Museum of Canada", clearly taking on national ambitions. It will be a while before they build a "complete" colleciton as they would need many more walls and roofs, but they are off to a great start. The Halifax is a ream gem.

Mike

[PinecastleAAF]

The Liberator is RCAF Liberator 586/A. My understanding is parts are with the North Atlantic Aviation Museum and much of the aircraft is still in situ.

Has anyone ever seen pictures of the crash site or pictures of what was recovered by Tom Riley before it was impounded? Just curious how torn up it was/is.

[cooper9411]

Heck, why don't they go get the B-24 out on Atka Island in the Aleutian chain? That one has combat history, it went down on its way back from one of its many missions!

[Warbird Kid]

Heck, why don't they go get the B-24 out on Atka Island in the Aleutian chain? That one has combat history, it went down on its way back from one of its many missions!

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, YES~!

[cooper9411]

The latest pictures that I've seen show it to be relativity in good condition, other than underside damage from the landing. At least the engines and props are all still there. Over the years "souvenir hunters" have made sure that pieces/parts came up missing! To bad that it is still languishing out there. One of the reasons is that the "landowner" does not allow any type of motorized vehicles on the island.

[Steve Nelson]

The Museum at Rockcliffe sees itself more as a technology museum, so they have what I would consider historical gaps, that they do not consider an issue. I do think one glaring hole in their collection is that lack of a piston powered Firebomber...say Tracker, TBM, or A-26. These aircraft had a long history in Canada and certainly fit within the technology mandate.

There's a Tracker in Conair Waterbomber markings (I understand it's actually an unconverted spares airframe) as well as a CL-215 at the Canadian Bushplane Museum in Sault Ste. Marie, ON. This museum is a real hidden gem..they have a spectacular collection in a really nice facility, a pair of big old Seaplane hangars on the St. Mary's River. It's a bit out of the way, but more than worth the effort to visit.

NNMA, I can't recal an EA-6B Prowler, C2 Greyhound, F-5 Agressor or E-2 Hawkeye yet?

I believe they have a Prowler now..at least there was one being worked on in the restoration hangar when I was last there two years ago. I seem to remember also seeing an F-5 on the outdoor storage ramp, but I may be mistaken. I tend to focus mainly on airplanes with whirly things on the front.

Revisting B-24s for a moment, I wish the Yankee Air Museum could have worked out some sort of deal to trade their (relatively) recently-acquired DHC Caribou (the second one built I understand) for the Ford-built B-24M in storage at Rockcliffe. I don't think the Canadian Aviation Museum has a Caribou, and it seems like getting their hands on the oldest example of one of Canada's signature aircraft would be a no brainer. Of course, I don't know anything about the inner workings of the Yankee organization, so I don't know if such a deal was considered or even possible.


SN

[k5083]

No national collection has anything approaching a comprehensive collection of types from the 1920s and 1930s, and all are missing at least a few significant types from the first years of WWII that had virtually disappeared before the conflict ended. They have made valiant efforts to locate last surviving examples or replicate, and the efforts continue, but for every Defiant, Albacore etc that has been saved, there are the likes of the Stirling that are extinct or the Skua which exist only as unsatisfying hulks.

August